Inconsistency of atheists.

[miko2d]

Atheists claim that the main reasons people are reliogious are because they are insecure and fear death, violence and need to feel purpose to life, etc. and prefer to irrationally believe in some supreme being that is overseing the whole world and will not allow bad things happen to them since they are not sinners, or at least any such tragedy that is allowed to happen is not permanent and will be remedied in afterlife.

 I happen to agree with that - which should not offend christians, since the fathers of the church lone ago proved that christianity is based on faith and cannot be based on reason (Beyle, Augustin, etc.) and it would explain why people believe in other gods, anyway.

 So far so good. The problem is that most atheists do not stop and examine what happens to those people that regected religion based on reason. After all, the people are still the same - the nature of humanity did not change. So if most of people so desired the feeling of security that they allowed their reason to be overridden, what are they doing now in view of those character traits?

 The answer is simple - most of them still have an irrational, cultist belief in a superior all-cnowing entity that could help ensure security, provide purpose in life and make sence of this unpreduictable world. They believe in the power of the state,  "society", "democracy" to guide them the right way - despite constant evidence to the contrary.

 Insecurity is just one reason why most atheists are socialists of one kind or another - including communists. There are more reasons but this is the major one.

 That is why, being an atheist, I would chose to live in a christian society any time - or at least untill atheists get much smarter and more secure. Religion is christians' private family affair and when people who do not express their insecurities through irrational politics, it allows to run society on a rational basis. If I have to be content with pornography being sold at the back of a store rather than displayed in a storefront window - so be it...

 miko

[Siaf__csf]

So in essence what you mean is that the people in faith live in a false sense of security and build thier lives accordingly. Then when they cross the thin thin line that separates the wealthy from the gutter, they can only bury deeper in thier insanity and preferably spice it up with some drugs. Gosh, what went wrong? Why am I being punished like this?

Whereas others may consider the greater benefit and share some of thier wealth to the unfortunate. The capitalist system can throw a person from middle class to the gutter simply because they happen to get a chronic disease.. They can't work anymore and have to sell the house just to pay the medical expenses.

With a state supported medical system and social support networks in place (and do not confuse this with socialism which often seems frail on many americans) this could not happen in most cases. Even then it is possible, though. Even in the nordic countries where the social security is the highest in the world, there are people living out in cardboard houses. They are beyond reach of help because of thier alcohol problems and have chosen the way of life on thier own.

But nobody has to end up there against thier will.. Everyone gets offered an appartment and sufficient money to survive untill the time the persons manage to get back into work. If they don't manage to get to work, they will live at the verge of poverty.. But still in a warm house with electricity, water, clothing bills paid and a plate of food in front of them every day.

I'd be scared to live in a society that didn't guarantee my well-being at times that I need it the most (such as sickness.)

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by miko2d
Insecurity is just one reason why most atheists are socialists of one kind or another - including communists. There are more reasons but this is the major one.

Please provide a link showing statistically atheists are mostly socialists? I for one am a capitilist and so are most other atheists I know.

[Sandman]

NM

[AKIron]

I'll raise ya one Miko. Atheists are more inconsistent than you suggest. If there is no afterlife and no judgement therein for your life lived then why not throw off all the shackles of conscience and morality? Why not live to the exclusive benefit of you and yours? Support for society so long as it is to your benefit, right?

I'll bet we might find a few religions lurking in your existence as well, if we looked closely enough.

[Frogm4n]

my family has been atheist for over 200 years, and yes we are socialist. We believe in doing good for community sake not for selfish reasons or because we are scared of some mystical cloud being.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by AKIron
I'll raise ya one Miko. Atheists are more inconsistent than you suggest. If there is no afterlife and no judgement therein for your life lived then why not throw off all the shackles of conscience and morality? Why not live to the exclusive benefit of you and yours? Support for society so long as it is to your benefit, right?

I'll bet we might find a few religions lurking in your existence as well, if we looked closely enough.

Believe it or not, it is possible to have a conscience and to be a moral person without being religious.

[AKIron]

Not arguing that Sandman, my question is what's the point?

[Sandman]

The point? Treat people the way you want to be treated. Most if not all will return the favor.

Instant benefit and you don't have to wait for an afterlife.

[AKIron]

Sure, there is benefit in that. No conscience or morality required though. Either of those might require you to do the "right" thing even if there was no tangible reward.

[Sandman]

Put it this way... it doesn't feel good to treat people poorly.

I'm in it for me.

[Frogm4n]

the point of it akiron is that society wouldnt function if we were all selfish aholes, and not just half. Evolution has bread these traits into us. Like why does a chimp bring back food to his society(of course after taking his share)? If we didnt have these traits ingrained into us, basic survival of our species wouldnt happen. How does a salmon know what to do? Or why do even the insects form societys? Its basic evolution. something that we are just starting to explore and understand through dna studies.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Frogm4n
the point of it akiron is that society wouldnt function if we were all selfish aholes, and not just half. Evolution has bread these traits into us. Like why does a chimp bring back food to his society(of course after taking his share)? If we didnt have these traits ingrained into us, basic survival of our species wouldnt happen. How does a salmon know what to do? Or why do even the insects form societys? Its basic evolution. something that we are just starting to explore and understand through dna studies.

We've had many lengthy threads regarding evolution vs creation. I'm not interested in debating that at present. The thread was started by Miko (imo) criticising Atheists for their lack of faith. I may be in agreement with him here concerning you. Your argument does conform to those to which he was referring.

[OIO]

It is also interesting to note most, if not all, atheists and agnostics believe in LUCK.

[Sandman]

Luck? There is no such thing as luck. Only probability.