10Bears Does Iraq have Chem/Bio Weapons?

[10Bears]

Your on 3 months..

I have a quibble with 2nd part.. Delivery systems are out. They can be used for conventional ordanance.

I demand a blood test!

Hey.. wasn't that you I seen in the CT the other night? The Slot?.. How do you like?

[Toad]

Originally posted by 10Bears
Your on 3 months..

I have a quibble with 2nd part.. Delivery systems are out. They can be used for conventional ordanance.

I demand a blood test!

Hey.. wasn't that you I seen in the CT the other night? The Slot?.. How do you like?

Done, till 3 months after the "truce" or "ceasefire" or "win".

Delivery systems specific to WMD count.. for example that drone they just found that only carries a light payload and is set up to distribute VX or Anthrax would count.


*********

Yeah, I was in the CT a while. The sun went down in the MA.

It's very pretty, you did well there.

My only real gripe against the CT is the icons. I just think it's the height of silliness to turn them off in the game when you'd be seeing IFF cues in RL and then turn them on in the game when you'd be getting plenty of visual IFF cues in RL.

However, in this setup it's not a factor. The distinct colors of the only available planes (gray vs blue) serves well enough as IFF in this instance. I may play it a bit more as a result.

With all the way the CV's and field capture is set up, it seems mostly a "furball" arena which is fine by me.  

Good job on the map.

[Nash]

Hhm... I guess this is my problem with the whole thing.

Say they finish pummelling Iraq and tossing out the government and begin setting up a proper occupation of Iraq. A press conference is held... damning evidence promised... they pull a rope, and a veil is lifted off of (Voila!) a drone.

Is WMD a reason to invade Iraq? I'd say so, yes.

Is a drone a WMD? I guess it could be argued that it's a delivery vehicle for WMD - many could see it that way - so lets say yes.

So far, so good... however...

Is the overthrow of the government of a sovereign nation by hundreds of thousands of troops... a war... justified, over a single drone?

The 1st two questions indicate yes, and point to a rationale for war. But is it rational? Is a drone really enough for everyone? Is a drone the threshold for war?

So yeah, that's my particular problem with this. Toad, aside from your bet with 10B, lets you and I just go with a 'reasonable people could conclude' approach, and if we're in agreement when this wraps up - I think we'll both know it.

If the war was worth it, good - and I'm paying a month of AH to one of your squadmates who was over there getting it done. If you conclude it was a sham, you get on the horn and start writing some letters. ( to your squaddie either way)

[Toad]

The whole point of the bet is basically 10Bears "there's no evidence" position.

There is evidence. A bit here, a bit there, a chunk over the other place. But each time, it is dismissed or excused as "not enough of it" or "not really that dangerous" or "oh, gee.. did we forget to mention that one? sorry!"

How long can one allow them to slide by on excuses?

I think there's ample evidence they are not in compliance. Is this reason enough for war? Taking Hussein's regime, genocide, murders and other deeds as a whole with the non-compliance (which includes a possibly advanced nuke program)... Yes, it is time. I'm at peace with that. I do want UN sanction, however; I am not into this pre-emptive action stuff. (Not that anyone calls and asks my opinion. Although I've been sending them a few E-Mails... whopwhopwhopwhop, here come the black helos! Quick!  Under the aluminum foil hats!)

That's why the bet is structured the way it is. Either they are in violation, and thus "not in compliance" for 12 years and it's time to "comply them" or they ARE in compliance.

Now, I'll be happy to take your money. But first, pick a charity or something. Heck, I'll pay your account for a month. I'm going to be writing those letters and angry E-mails anyway if you turn out to be right, so you aren't "winning" or "getting" anything.

As to the "proof", I'd expect to see a whole lot more than one drone or one lonely shell full of VX also.

So, the wager between you and I would be a bit different than the one with 10Bears in that respect.

With him, it's "not in compliance". With you, I'll take "reasonable people could conclude".

>

[10Bears]

Yes it would..

Delevery systems out. scuds UAV's out.. I want to see your mass piles of WMD Toad.. not the delevery systems.

Do we have a bet?

[Toad]

Sure; you got a bet.

I'm quite sure they will find that stuff if we go to war.

Of course, if they find 25000 delivery systems used soley for WMD and no WMD, you'll win the bet and actually think they didn't have a WMD program going hot and heavy right?

[lazs2]

nash... if, say, canada had one drone capable of delivering wmd even after they said they didn't.... it might not be worth overthrowing their government to get rid of their leader.   If the sadman did then it certainly is.   Understand the difference?
lazs

[Nash]

"Canada... one drone... it might not be worth overthrowing their government to get rid of their leader

Dang. Well... what if we had TWO drones?

[Nash]

But seriously... If at the end of this thing I see Bush holding up an RC plane in front of the cameras I think I'm gonna puke.

[Toad]

You got a bet too, Nash.

And I think you know you're going to lose and it won't be because of some RPV.

BTW, you going to take the month of AH or do you want it to go to a charity? Is there "Poutine for the Poor" or something you want to name up front?

[Nash]

I've tried poutine (that how you spell it?) once at a Burger King on the east coast once and it was the nastiest stuff I've ever tasted. I wouldn't wish it on the poor. It's a Quebec thing.

Speaking of the French... just give the month to straffo. Poor guy has taken enough abuse over this entire thing I figure..

[Toad]

Done.

Straffo is your charity. WpnX is mine.

I like mine better.

[straffo]

Nash I prefer you to give money to Handicap International or MSF.

http://www.handicap-international.org.uk/site/page_type/accueil.asp

http://www.msf.org/

[Toad]

Originally posted by 10Bears
Your on 3 months..

I have a quibble with 2nd part.. Delivery systems are out. They can be used for conventional ordanance.

I demand a blood test!

Hey.. wasn't that you I seen in the CT the other night? The Slot?.. How do you like?

For the record before an edit shows.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Toad
10Bears, I gotta laugh. I think Nash and I are pretty much on the same page overall. Guess you don't see it.

OK, here's the bet:

$45 (or more if you like.)


1. Use of chem/bio weapons during the combat phase means I win. Finding chem/bio weapons with 3 months after cessation of hostilities means I win.

(Sorry, but you know 2 weeks isn't long enough for Blix and crew to unpack their underwear and this stuff is obviously pretty well hidden. It's going to take a little time to get the collaborators to come forward and lead the way. I doubt Iraqis are going to want to spill the beans until they're quite sure the Hussein days are over.)

Three months, that's the bet. Hey, it's taken them 12 YEARS to get this far.

2. It's gotta be Blix and crew OR his UN appointed follow-on. We don't know; Blix might quit in disgust if the war starts or something.  So, make it a UN sponsored investigator or something.

3. Any chem/bio weaponry or components that are on the prohibited list counts. You're saying they have nothing on the prohibited list, I'm saying they do.

After all, this war is about them not 'fessing up to what they have that is on the list. If they have the prohibited precursor chemicals to VX for example... bingo, I win.

4. The hippy girl is out of it. I figured you just tossed her in there so you'd have a bolt hole to avoid paying when you lost.

She isn't my daughter but she sure looks like a potential momma I used to run around with back in the "make love, not war" days.

Now, you in or you running away?

For the record.