Could this be the reason why France, Germany, Russia and China oppose war?

[akak]

I think it's time the U.S. and U.K. show the world why France, Germany, Russia and China oppose the war.  It's not from any moral high ground but rather pure and simple greed.  Here is what France stands to lose if there is a war.

France
According to the CIA World Factbook, France controls over 22.5 percent of Iraq’s imports. French total trade with Iraq under the oil-for-food program is the third largest, totaling $3.1 billion since 1996, according to the United Nations.
In 2001 France became Iraq’s largest European trading partner.
Roughly 60 French companies do an estimated $1.5 billion in trade with Baghdad annually under the U.N. oil-for-food program.
France’s largest oil company, Total Fina Elf, has negotiated a deal to develop the Majnoon field in western Iraq. The Majnoon field purportedly contains up to 30 billion barrels of oil.
Total Fina Elf also negotiated a deal for future oil exploration in Iraq’s Nahr Umar field. Both the Majnoon and Nahr Umar fields are estimated to contain as much as 25 percent of the country’s reserves.
France’s Alcatel company, a major telecom firm, is negotiating a $76 million contract to rehabilitate Iraq’s telephone system.
From 1981 to 2001, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), France was responsible for over 13 percent of Iraq’s arms imports.

Ack-Ack

[akak]

Germany
Direct trade between Germany and Iraq amounts to about $350 million annually, and another $1 billion is reportedly sold through third parties.
It has recently been reported that Saddam Hussein has ordered Iraqi domestic businesses to show preference to German companies as a reward for Germany’s “firm positive stand in rejecting the launching of a military attack against Iraq.” It was also reported that over 101 German companies were present at the Baghdad Annual exposition.
During the 35th Annual Baghdad International Fair in November 2002, a German company signed a contract for $80 million for 5,000 cars and spare parts.
In 2002, DaimlerChrysler was awarded over $13 million in contracts for German trucks and spare parts.
German officials are investigating a German corporation accused of illegally channeling weapons to Iraq via Jordan. The equipment in question is used for boring the barrels of large cannons and is allegedly intended for Saddam Hussein’s Al Fao Supercannon project.

Not only do all four countries stem to lose billions in trade and oil rights if we go to war with Iraq but all four countries have also violated UN sanctions that were put in place after the Gulf War.

France is responsible for 13% of Iraqi military imports, Germany has helped rebuild Iraqi military , Russia is responsible for 50% of Iraqi arms imports from 1981 to 2001 and China is Iraq's second largest military importer with 18% from 1981 to 2001.  

For the complete report, click on the below link.

Facts on who benefits if Saddam Hussein stays in power



Ack-Ack

[BUG_EAF322]

And now the US  is gonna force a contract too.
They cannot ofcourse stay behind.

[Raubvogel]

Dammit AKAK, everyone knows its only the US who wants the oil! Quit clouding the discussion with these "fact" thingies!

Germany and France dont profit from Irak! Its plane redeculous!

[Duedel]

Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
And now the US  is gonna force a contract too.
They cannot ofcourse stay behind.

[Saurdaukar]

[Jagger voice] Stuck between IRAQ... and a HARD plaaaace.... [/Jagger voice]

[Dago]

UNITED NATIONS - The fissure in the U.N.
Security Council deepened Thursday when
France rejected a British compromise on Iraq infuriating London and prompting the
United States to consider postponing a
vote on an ultimatum against Baghdad until next week.

Iraq, reveling in the turmoil at the council,
dismissed Britain's plan, which lists six
disarmament requirements Baghdad would have
to meet or else face "serious consequences."

Britain proposed the list in a bid to win votes on
the council for a U.S.-backed resolution
authorizing war unless Baghdad meets a
deadline. To sweeten the offer, British officials
also suggested pushing back the deadline from
Monday, as originally proposed by the United States.

France's flat rejection of the proposals clearly
angered British leaders. Foreign Secretary Jack
Straw called the French attitude "extraordinary."
Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites)
feels the French "have become completely
intransigent and have literally threatened to veto
almost anything that is put forward to the U.N.
Security Council," Conservative Party leader
Iain Duncan Smith said after meeting with Blair
in London.

[Boroda]

It's funny, but Iraq pays all the debts to France and Germany, but not Russia!

I wonder what are the real reasons for our position on Iraqi qiestion. Russian oil companies lost all contracts with Iraq, Iraq doesn't pay debts, and they are not a client for our military industry because of UN sanctions.

Speaking of worl oil prices the only thing that satisfies Russia now is status quo: Iraq doesn't export oil so prices are high, and even higher because everyone is afraid of the war.

If oil prices will drop below $18 per barrel - Russian government can simply close the office and retire.

The only reasons I can imagine are the anti-american feelings that appeared after NATO unprovoked agression in Yugoslavia and the problem with Moslim population in Russia. Unlike other European countries we are a federation with many parts being Moslim republics. I doubt that our government is afraid that we can be the next target for agressors - we still have nukes that will last long enough for our "leaders" to retire somewhere in Switzerland.

[Hortlund]

Boroda, I dont think the Russian position was serious. But by saying "we will vote no" they bought more leverage to the discussion.

My bet is Putin is buying more freedom of action in Chechnya.
"If we give you the go-ahead in Iraq, we want complete freedom of action in Chechnya AND the new Iraqi regime must pay what they owe us."

France on the other hand will get nothing. Unless they do a 180, and that is why I believe that when push comes to shove, the French will abstain instead of using their veto. In an attempt to salvage some sort of influence in the new Iraqi regime.

[Boroda]

Hortlund, do you seriously think someone will care about promises given to Russian government when it will come to dividing money?! Last 200 years of experience tell us that Western nations keep their promises only when they see Russian bayonets.

It's pretty stupid to buy freedom to kill terrorists on our own land (Russia is a souverign country, isn't it? Mind your own business, dear Euros!) at the cost of the complete economical collapse that will come after US will install their puppet "democratic" regime in Iraq and oil prices will drop to $11, or even $8 according to some econimists, per barrel, that is much cheaper then expenses on Siberian oil fields.

[blitz]

Germany finally discovered  


Regards Blitz



America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Boroda, I dont think the Russian position was serious. But by saying "we will vote no" they bought more leverage to the discussion.

My bet is Putin is buying more freedom of action in Chechnya.
"If we give you the go-ahead in Iraq, we want complete freedom of action in Chechnya AND the new Iraqi regime must pay what they owe us."

France on the other hand will get nothing. Unless they do a 180, and that is why I believe that when push comes to shove, the French will abstain instead of using their veto. In an attempt to salvage some sort of influence in the new Iraqi regime.

I think Russia's position is more of a payback for us pulling out of couple of weapon agreements we had with them and it's also their last 'horay' as a dying superpower.


ack-ack

[BUG_EAF322]

I think Russia's position is more of a payback for us pulling out of couple of weapon agreements we had with them and it's also their last 'horay' as a dying superpower.

Europe is gonna be the next superpower.

USA is gonna be bankrupt after bushes war monger.

Our euro is already stronger

These days wars are won economical

The cowboy time is over and done.

Only bush doesn't know yet

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
Europe is gonna be the next superpower.

No, because Europe will never act "as one". Already there is a huge split in the EU between the federalists and the non-federalists. This has not been improved lately since France and Germany are the main federalist nations. If EU is to become a superpower, the EU will have to work with one voice. That will never happen. Aint no way. Personally I'd rather start a civil war than live in a united Europe with a French or German "president".

I think what we are seeing though is the beginning of the end of the EU. First the new wave of nations will join, pushing the member number up to what...25? Combine this with the subsidies and the voting rules...The union will break in (at least) two parts, those who want more (France, Germany) and those who want less (UK, Den, Swe, Spa).

[Lazerus1]

think i like tha way ya think.

Hort