Rebuilding

[john9001]

whats wrong with Afghanistan ??
now that the taliban are gone afgan girls can go to school, afgan women can go back to their jobs, little boys can fly kites, and the soccer field is used for soccer not executions , the people are raising food , the water system is being rebuilt, the roads are being repaired, etc etc

damm imperial americans, always sticking their big noses in.

[OZkansas]

Originally posted by john9001
after the US troops get rid of saddam , the US will send over 100,000 war protesters to keep the peace. they will march and give speeches and tell the iraqis how bad war is and carry signs like "no blood for oil" "impeach war monger bush"

Dixie Chicks will lead the singing:)

[lord dolf vader]

ohh yea like isreal has been . try reality on for size the rest of the world has spoken. they dont like us siezeing anyone elses country. hell i agree. wrap yourself in a flag and your still spouting crap in a messy flag.

[Dowding]

Afghanistan is a terrible example in my opinion.

True, there's no oil, and that might be Iraq's saving grace.

But apart from that, Afghanistan is an excellent example. Big promises of freedom and the people are no better off for being rid of the Taliban. The country is still a mess outside of Kabul, and even there the peace is fragile. Only a small fraction of the $20 billion needed to rebuild the country has been offered - but like I said, Iraq's oil will probably make that much less of an issue.

When all's said and done Iraq is an artificial country comprised of various tribes who have some very heavy axes to grind. Given half a chance chance, do you really think they are going to hold hands around the camp fire?

[john9001]

Originally posted by Dowding
When all's said and done Iraq is an artificial country comprised of various tribes who have some very heavy axes to grind. Given half a chance chance, do you really think they are going to hold hands around the camp fire?

When all's said and done America is an artificial country comprised of various tribes who have some very heavy axes to grind. Given half a chance chance, do you really think they are going to hold hands around the camp fire?

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Dowding
Afghanistan is an excellent example. Big promises of freedom and the people are no better off for being rid of the Taliban.

How the hell can you say that with a straight face? Are you saying the claims that John9001 made in an earlier post are false? I'd REALLY like to know how you define better off.

[Shuckins]

If the Iraqi military collapses as quickly as some experts think it will, there may be very little damage to clean up.  Nevertheless, the U.S. should help rebuild what IS damaged in order to lend support to whatever government takes over after Saddam is deposed.

Cast as many doubts as you will on our motives for invading Iraq, but I feel that many of his neighbors will breathe a collective sigh of relief when he, and his weapons of mass destruction, are gone.

Regards, Shuckins

[Shuckins]

AkIron,

What he's saying is that we misunderstood when we saw all those Afghanis dancing in the streets after the defeat of the Taliban.  We misunderstood when they dug up their buried televisions that had been banned.  We also misunderstood when the Afghani men shaved off their beards that they had been required to grow.  We didn't understand when they rushed to reestablish schools for their young girls.

Aren't we ashamed that we are so naive as to believe that they are not better off?


Regards, Shuckins

[AKIron]

I believe it's been said that the US will assume the responsibility of governing Iraq until a democratic government can be instituted.

[Rude]

Originally posted by Dowding
Ozkansas is asking about the costs of rebuilding. He clearly believes the US shouldn't carry that burden. I'm asking about the forces needed to enable rebuilding. Does he believe the Iraqis should pay for them?

The benefit recieved by this action will in itself more than pay for our troop involvement....it's a strong statement sent to other nations and terrorist groups themselves to consider their actions.

Just one single 9-11 event stopped by this action by far pays for our military involvement.

As to cash....Iraqi oil will offset much of the cost...as it should.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Shuckins
Aren't we ashamed that we are so naive as to believe that they are not better off?

What WAS I thinking?

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Dowding

When all's said and done Iraq is an artificial country comprised of various tribes who have some very heavy axes to grind. Given half a chance chance, do you really think they are going to hold hands around the camp fire?

While the cultural divisions of the Iraqi people are certainly going to be the sticking point to any effort at fostering a representative government in the region, I feel that they will be significantly easier to work with than the base tribalism found in Afghanistan.

I thought I had gone over this before in here, but after searching, It must have been in BW. Anyhow, here's something I put together a few years ago, and I use it as a model for understanding the odds for and against democracy. http://home.earthlink.net/~acesarz3/papers/democac.htm

I feel that Iraq stands a significantly greater chance of being able to transform into a true islamic republic than Afghanistan does.

-Sik

[Dowding]

Afghan police 'abusing rights'

Afghan security situation 'urgent'

Afghanistan's uneasy peace

"Yes, a quarter of girls are back in school, some women have returned to work, and the sounds of music and television permeate the dusty suburbs of Kabul.

But there are no women singers on radio, and musicians talk of beatings when they play.

There has been opposition to girls' schooling  
Schools in two provinces have been rocketed and burnt - and night letters delivered to warn teachers of giving instruction to girls.

Outside the capital, private militias impose the will of powerbrokers, in contradiction of the wishes of the central government, and the president.

These men do their masters' work, by looting, imposing duties on trade, and 'protecting' and taxing the people. "

Warlords overshadow Afghan army

"...far bigger warlords are back in power after defeating the Taleban, and some are still fighting in the north and west.

Meanwhile, former Taleban elements in the south could re-equip quickly if the opportunity arose."

Agencies threaten Afghan pullout

"The UN Special Representative in Afghanistan, Lakhdar Brahimi, has demanded urgent action from two leading factional commanders - General Abdul Rashid Dostum and General Atta Mohamed - to stop what he calls an alarming level of violence, lawlessness and intimidation."

Afghanistan's unfulfilled dreams

Afghanistan retakes heroin crown

"Afghanistan retook its place as the world's leading producer of heroin last year, after US-led forces overthrew the Taleban which had banned cultivation of opium poppies."

Not quite the rosy picture some of you paint.

[Rude]

Originally posted by Dowding
Afghan police 'abusing rights'

Afghan security situation 'urgent'

Afghanistan's uneasy peace

"Yes, a quarter of girls are back in school, some women have returned to work, and the sounds of music and television permeate the dusty suburbs of Kabul.

But there are no women singers on radio, and musicians talk of beatings when they play.

There has been opposition to girls' schooling  
Schools in two provinces have been rocketed and burnt - and night letters delivered to warn teachers of giving instruction to girls.

Outside the capital, private militias impose the will of powerbrokers, in contradiction of the wishes of the central government, and the president.

These men do their masters' work, by looting, imposing duties on trade, and 'protecting' and taxing the people. "

Warlords overshadow Afghan army

"...far bigger warlords are back in power after defeating the Taleban, and some are still fighting in the north and west.

Meanwhile, former Taleban elements in the south could re-equip quickly if the opportunity arose."

Agencies threaten Afghan pullout

"The UN Special Representative in Afghanistan, Lakhdar Brahimi, has demanded urgent action from two leading factional commanders - General Abdul Rashid Dostum and General Atta Mohamed - to stop what he calls an alarming level of violence, lawlessness and intimidation."

Afghanistan's unfulfilled dreams

Afghanistan retakes heroin crown

"Afghanistan retook its place as the world's leading producer of heroin last year, after US-led forces overthrew the Taleban which had banned cultivation of opium poppies."

Not quite the rosy picture some of you paint.

Nor the simplistic one sided picture you paint....your point is the US should have left well enough alone? You prefer the Taliban?

So no oppressed people should be given the opportunity for self rule? Just leave them to their current oppression would be your call?

Sittin behind you monitor criticizing the people making efforts to bring about positive change in this world is sad and shameful.

The good news is this....add twenty more years to your young passionate little hiney and you'll find the middle ground often referred to as the truth.

[Dowding]

That's right. The BBC is biased against the US.

Anymore inane arguments?

I never said the US shouldn't have got involved in Afghanistan - I'm saying that it has had few benefits so far. The average Afghani is still bullied around by gun-toting thugs.