Author Topic: Bush and his advisors are really smart  (Read 1627 times)

Offline funkedup

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Bush and his advisors are really smart
« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2003, 12:52:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
So when do we attack Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to name but two countries?


One at a time.  :)

Offline Torque

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One at a time....
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2003, 04:36:18 PM »
1953:   US overthrows elected Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran
  US installs Shah as dictator

1954:   US overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of
Guatemala.
  200,000 civilians murdered

1963:   US backs murder of South Vietnamese President Diem.

1963-1975:
American Military murders 4 million people in Southeast Asia, US used Chemicals weapons  on a massive scale..

Sept 11, 1973:
US stages coup in Chile Democratically elected Presiden Salvador Allende Assassinated

Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed
5,000 Chileans murdered

1977:   US backs military rulers of El Salvador
70,000 Salvadorans and four Amercian nuns killed

1980's:   US trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill
Soviets, CIA gives them $3 billion

1981:   Reagan administration trains and funds "contras."

1982:   US provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to
kill Iranians

1983:   White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis

1989:   CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of
Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. US invades Panama
to protect the canal. In this 1989 invasion, Washington wiped out
Panama's military, along with about 6,000 Panamanian civilians who were
also murdered.

1990:   Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from US

1991:   US enters Iraq
  Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait

1991 - present:
  American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis.
  UN estimates well over 700,000 Iraqi children have died from
bombing and sanctions

1998:   Clinton bombs "weapon factory" in Sudan
  Factory in fact made aspirin

2000-01:  US gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in 'aid'

Sept 11, 2001:
Osama bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000
people
 

Quite the resume of destabilization and terror, i hear Sweden is nexted to many natural blondes.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Re: One at a time....
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2003, 04:43:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Torque
1953:   US overthrows elected Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran
  US installs Shah as dictator

1954:   US overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of
Guatemala.
  200,000 civilians murdered

1963:   US backs murder of South Vietnamese President Diem.

1963-1975:
American Military murders 4 million people in Southeast Asia, US used Chemicals weapons  on a massive scale..

Sept 11, 1973:
US stages coup in Chile Democratically elected Presiden Salvador Allende Assassinated

Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed
5,000 Chileans murdered

1977:   US backs military rulers of El Salvador
70,000 Salvadorans and four Amercian nuns killed

1980's:   US trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill
Soviets, CIA gives them $3 billion

1981:   Reagan administration trains and funds "contras."

1982:   US provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to
kill Iranians

1983:   White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis

1989:   CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of
Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. US invades Panama
to protect the canal. In this 1989 invasion, Washington wiped out
Panama's military, along with about 6,000 Panamanian civilians who were
also murdered.

1990:   Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from US

1991:   US enters Iraq
  Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait

1991 - present:
  American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis.
  UN estimates well over 700,000 Iraqi children have died from
bombing and sanctions

1998:   Clinton bombs "weapon factory" in Sudan
  Factory in fact made aspirin

2000-01:  US gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in 'aid'

Sept 11, 2001:
Osama bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000
people
 

Quite the resume of destabilization and terror, i hear Sweden is nexted to many natural blondes.



I think I'll just quote your entire post and let your interesting characterizations speak for themselves....  Nothing else need to be done to illustrtare your madness and blind hatred of america.

Offline Hangtime

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Bush and his advisors are really smart
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2003, 05:16:05 PM »
Miko, for your review:

Quote
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God. In acknowledgement whereof I have hereunto affixed my signature.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline BGBMAW

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Bush and his advisors are really smart
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2003, 05:52:44 PM »
Sab says...


We're creating an ever bigger pool of terrorists by our lack of human respect around the world.


Ok..how about you prove what your saying?>

Sab also says...

I sure as hell wish our president studied a bit better in world history and US foreign policy when he was a student rather than do coke and party.



Ya..sure seems like you are already Biased...so why even bother with you. So when peoplle do drugs in there life it makes them "un-creditble'?

You have to be kidding yourself..People HATE  the US..what the diddly DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO CHANGE THERE MINDS??  

Send them more medice or food like North Korea..? lmfao

Saburo..I think you are a moron.

Offline BGBMAW

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Saburo..tell me where this is wrong?
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2003, 05:53:16 PM »
Three weekends ago, millions of demonstrators across the globe protested on behalf of "human rights." Their marches, slogans, placards and speeches did not declaim against Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, did not cite the human rights reports detailing his tyranny and torture, did not take account the plaints of Iraqis fortunate enough to live in exile.





Rather, they protested the U.S. and the U.K. and their efforts to topple Saddam and liberate Iraq. Now, we are seeing more television advertisements along these lines, and even a "virtual march on Washington."

Just after the celebration of Abraham Lincoln’s birthday, it is appropriate to remember his lament: "The world has never had a good definition of the word ‘liberty.’" With Saddam flouting international law, and President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair attempting to enforce it, portrayals of Bush as Adolf Hitler — as we saw and heard in the "human rights" protests — betray an ignorance of liberty, an ignorance of right and wrong, an ignorance of commonsense. Because Bush and Blair are putting together a coalition of countries to oust Saddam, they are labeled the warmongers and tyrants. We live in a confusing time indeed.

Lincoln described liberty by a useful analogy: "The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep's throat, for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as a liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of liberty." Lincoln made it clear who the sheep was and who the wolf was. It is equally important to recognize who the liberator is.

Those who march against the U.S. and the U.K. today, those who condemn Bush and Blair and remain silent when it comes to Saddam, are in league with the wolf’s view that the shepherds are destroying liberty. The people of Iraq will soon know what Afghanis know. The true wolf was devouring Afghanis, the true shepherd saved them.

It is worth remembering what those in the former Soviet republics know and what the anti-American Western street has forgotten: It was, and is, U.S. and British resolve that truly liberates the oppressed and that defends the lives and liberties of the free against the appetites and ill-will of the world’s dictators.

In 1998 then-President Bill Clinton stated: "What if he [Saddam] fails to comply [with disarmament] and we fail to act? He will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then go right on building up his arsenal. Someday, someway, I guarantee you, he'll use that arsenal." Last year, former Vice President Al Gore stated, "[W]e know that he [Saddam] has stored away secret supplies of biological weapons and chemical weapons throughout his country."

It is not President Bush who woke up one day to discover that Saddam was making and harvesting weapons of mass destruction. Yet it is Bush who is blamed for doing something about it. Saddam may be mad, but he is not a scientist. He does not collect chemical and biological weapons for mere pleasure and intrigue. Just ask the survivors of Halabja. So when Saddam acts, it will be Bush and America who are blamed for inaction, for appeasement. We will be liable for such blame because we are the only ones who can do something about it.

We are not at war with Muslims or Arabs around the world; we are at war with some Muslim and Arab leaders who misinterpret their religion and put a primacy on war over peace and slavery over freedom. But among the leadership in the world’s moral democracies there is no misinterpretation, and nowhere is that more true than in the case of the U.S.

This is not a new role for us, but is a unique role we proudly inherit as the world’s liberator. As Wolf Blitzer pointed out: "Over the past two decades, almost every time U.S. military forces have been called into action to risk their lives and limbs, it's been on behalf of Muslims. ... [T]o assist the Afghan mujahadin … during the Soviet invasion in the 1980s, to liberate Kuwait following the Iraqi invasion of 1990, to help Somali Muslims suffering at the hands of a warlord in Mogadishu, to help Muslims first in Bosnia and then in Kosovo who faced a Serb onslaught, and more recently to liberate Afghanistan from its Taliban and Al Qaeda rulers."

Those who protest against the U.S. just now are legatees of those who protested against the U.S. in the 1980s, when we fought the focus of evil then, the Soviet Union. But ask a former Soviet, or East Berliner, if he is better off now than he was, say, 15 years ago. Ask a Nicaraguan. Ask a Bosnian Muslim. U.S. resolve can be thanked for all that, even as those who protested our defense and military postures marched in favor of appeasement.

Indeed, we live in a strange time when the anti-nuclear movement and its leaders of yesterday can today suggest a course of inaction such that Saddam will be able to join North Korea in becoming a nuclear power. The only logical conclusion one can reach is that for the protesters today, weapons in the hands of the U.S. are to be met with outrage while weapons in the hands of Saddam are to be met with silence.

We seek to liberate Iraq today, not only because for Saddam "[t]orture is not a method of last resort in Iraq, it is often the method of first resort," according to Kenneth Pollack, President Clinton’s director of Gulf Affairs at the NSC. We seek to liberate Iraq because after Sept. 11, 2001, we were put on notice. We were put on notice that civilized people can no longer live in a bubble and hope for the best. We were put on notice that there are fanatics and tyrants who want nothing from us but our death. And this notice requires action: the action of the brave, the action of the unthanked, the action of the free.

In Iraq as in other contemporary situations, the responsibility to act has been ours because the ability has been ours. The responsibility has been ours because oppressed people look to us for their deliverance. There is a duty in being the nation that Abraham Lincoln, speaking of our Declaration of Independence, called "a rebuke and a stumbling-block to the very harbingers of re-appearing tyranny and oppression." That is who we happen to be. And it is an honor.

William J. Bennett,

Offline SaburoS

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Re: Re: One at a time....
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2003, 06:03:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I think I'll just quote your entire post and let your interesting characterizations speak for themselves....  Nothing else need to be done to illustrtare your madness and blind hatred of america.


GRUNHERZ,
Obviously you believe those things didn't happen.
What if they were true? Can we say then that you were ignorant of US foreign policy?
Would you still believe that Torque was insane and had a "blind hatred of america"?
Why do you consider that one posts what they believe are facts to be hating the US?
Is he calling for the murder of Americans?
Is he calling for Terror attacks against America and/or Americans?
Is he trying to destroy our rights we enjoy as Americans?
Perhaps he has a love of the country that perhaps to illustrate some history that hopefully won't be repeated?
Trust me on this: Our country will not collapse because of dissent.
BTW, don't confuse your statements of others as fact. It is your opinion only.
By all means continue to prove your manhood by flaming away and showing your blind hatred.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline SaburoS

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Re: Saburo..tell me where this is wrong?
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2003, 06:12:42 PM »
BGBMAW,
In short, it is full of double standards. Our government is acting on double standards(nothing new in that BTW).

I'll ask you this: Is international law to be followed by ALL countries? Not just Iraq, Iran, North Korea, (------- insert any nation you don't like), but also our country?

Are we talking about following int'l laws only now or are we to include the past?
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Bush and his advisors are really smart
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2003, 06:20:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS

...or do you save all your accusations for Democrats only?


Yes, because there are so many democrats I blame for everything.


Quote
Sure the balls been rolling for decades now, but this is the first time that I'm living through seeing first hand our lack of world support for a military action so large. (I was too young for Vietnam). We could have chosen diplomacy, but we're set on war.
We're adding fuel to the fire of our true enemies.


Diplomacy? I don't suppose the 12 years of diplomacy has proven to be a complete failure?

It has, if you think it was a success... then I guess taking 12 years to build a highway that should take 6 months isn't a complete waste of taxpayers money.

Vietnam was something entirely different. However, when a nation (S. Vietnam) asks you for your help- what do you do? If you turn a blind eye, then you probably would fit in with those who didn't support us then... and I despise those people, they are the same type of people who will pretend to be your friends until you do something they don't agree with, then they leave you high and dry. They don't even deserve the title of fair weather friends.

In the case of Iraq, maybe you like to sit there and be complacent and give in to Saddam... but some of us got tired of that. If you don't think the UN has been giving into Saddam, then tell, why exactly has it taken 12 years just to get the inspectors into the country long enough that they actually find Al Samoud-2 missles? Something Saddam didn't claim existed until was found. Something that should of been claimed in 1991.

World support doesn't mean anything, especially when most of it is uninformed BS hearsay.
-SW

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Re: Re: Re: One at a time....
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2003, 06:25:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
GRUNHERZ,
Obviously you believe those things didn't happen.
 


No, go read my post....

Offline BGBMAW

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Bush and his advisors are really smart
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2003, 06:29:07 PM »
Sab... :rolleyes:


simple response..no

and where do you read all your news from? Any specific source?





"We run tings...Tings no Run We"

-Don Wani- Third World Cop-

Offline SaburoS

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Bush and his advisors are really smart
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2003, 06:42:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BGBMAW
Sab... :rolleyes:

simple response..no

and where do you read all your news from? Any specific source?

 


Your "simple response..no" is to which of the questions I asked?

To answer your questions: Various newspapers, magazines, tv shows such as the BBC, PBS, CNN, articles from the internet usually via google. I like to get multiple viewpoints of the same incident if possible.

How about you?
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline BGBMAW

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Bush and his advisors are really smart
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2003, 07:15:30 PM »
thougth your were going to say PETA and Greenpeace..lolo

no mostly Drudge report- which links to all major AP and other folks,,, I wacth Fox News a little CNN but they were so Blatant about pro-Clinton/ anti-Bush i toejam on the channel now (Ted Tuner is a hunk of toejam) i do really like the Turner Classic movie Channel tho :)

And no was to both your questions..

I dont think we should be in "internatinal Court" look at some of these countries and who runs them?

I mean come on..You want our soldiers judged by IRan? Syria? France? Russia?..etc...   These countries Gov hate what we stand for..diddly them Burn in hell..and yes not all of the people..Hell like here in the USA..we could really "shed" some of these people..Daschle-Byrd..Buchanon...list goes on...

We are the Best Country this world has ever had or ever will ..

We are a hybrid of this world.that is why we are so dam good.

we have all come from other countries to this place. The founding fathers were so diddlying smart they wrote down toejam that works 200 years later!

Bill of Rights!!!! dam its good...

BiGB

Offline SaburoS

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Bush and his advisors are really smart
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2003, 07:28:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Diplomacy? I don't suppose the 12 years of diplomacy has proven to be a complete failure?

It has, if you think it was a success... then I guess taking 12 years to build a highway that should take 6 months isn't a complete waste of taxpayers money.


Sorry, but I guess we'll never find out if diplomacy would have worked or not. In the last few months through tremendous pressure by the US and Great Britain, we were going in the right direction.

Our motives have been shifting up to our invasion. Our demands kept changing.

I will give you this:

If after the invasion is over and Saddam is gone, and Iraq has free elections, civil rights, freedom of the media, trade unions, liberties, and dissidents allowed to protest (no one being thrown in jail, tortured, killed because of their political beliefs), then I'll admit I was completely wrong. I hope I am wrong.
BTW, I'm still waiting for that to happen in Afghanistan.

Quote
Vietnam was something entirely different. However, when a nation (S. Vietnam) asks you for your help- what do you do? If you turn a blind eye, then you probably would fit in with those who didn't support us then... and I despise those people, they are the same type of people who will pretend to be your friends until you do something they don't agree with, then they leave you high and dry. They don't even deserve the title of fair weather friends.
-SW


Vietnam was an experiment that failed. Early on right after Ho Chi Minh took power, he idealised the US that he made the Vietnamese constitution basically a copy of our own. We passed up a prime time to open diplomatic relations. Instead we chose to isolate him and Vietnam, and side with France instead.
We supported and help split up Vietnam into two, North and South. I do believe that after the French withdraw, there was to be a unification vote by the Vietnamese to which the US was opposed. We propped up leaders (hell, we had one assasinated because he wasn't "effective" in our eyes.). Did the South Vietnamese have liberty, freedom, and democracy? Hardly. Vietnam was our playground...our chip in the big game against the USSR. We miscalculated the Vietnamese resolve (they lost, what 2 million dead in that war? How many more injured?). We labeled them communists when in fact they were nationalists. After we finally realized that we couldn't win (oh we could have wiped out the entire nation but that wouldn't amout to a victory worth having), our politicians sold out our remaining "friends" in Vietnam just so our politicians could save face. Our soldiers and the Vietnamese in general were given the short end of the stick by our government.
Unfortunetly our govt has been fair weather friends to more than I'd like.
Bay of Pigs in Cuba
Mongolian resistance against the People's Republic of China
Iraqi resistance between the wars
Vietnam
Angola
...to name a few.

(sorry if my timelines and facts aren't spot on as I'm going on memories of my studies of 10-20 years ago.)
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline SaburoS

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Bush and his advisors are really smart
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2003, 07:39:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BGBMAW
We have all come from other countries to this place. The founding fathers were so diddlying smart they wrote down toejam that works 200 years later!

Bill of Rights!!!! dam its good...

BiGB
 Damn right. Too bad we don't share it with other nations. Perhaps you'll name some 3rd and 2nd world nations (allies) that enjoy our same civil liberties and rights. Sadly we prop up and support more totalitarian dictatorships than not. That's the dilema I face as a freedom loving American.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell