Author Topic: France wants the spoils of the war (Read 1885 times)

Charon · « **Reply #45 on:** March 22, 2003, 04:20:46 PM »

Quote

And your point is?

That people that get out and protest tend towards the extreme ends of the bell curve? Either end?

Or that capitalism is a wide and varied opportunity?

Or that cute chicks dig entrepreneurs?

What?

Toad

Well, my point developed like this. Looking at the image I think, wow, that looks like a model there. Imagine that, a model on the Internet who is not taking her clothes off for some moderate quality Eastern European Web porn. Then, hmm, all those signs have a Web address on them. Since I have a background in PR and work as a journalist today, leading to an entirely cynical view of the world based largely on first hand experience, this set off some red flags: "marketing alert!"

I went to the web site.

First thing I notice is the lack of banner ads. Well, that's a good sign. You see some rather rabid political philosophy, a philosophy not really shared by many of the pro war protestors but a philosophy certainly embraced by some factions. Fine, there are many special interests and general interests being debated on both sides of the issue.

But then I notice the TOC on the side promoting protest materials like $3.00 bumper stickers without being able to find even the vague: "Portions of the proceeds will be donated to..." Then you look at their "counter protest" activities and the PR side of me realizes how effective these counter demonstrations can be at generating a buzz and awareness of this admittedly excellent pro war product line. Having just watched news of the second set of allied casualties roll in, I suppose it just pissed me off. Just like the "professional protest organizers" I saw interviewed on the news that night pissed me off. So I posted my outrage at like 2:00 am.

A small point of outrage, but then I tend to be serious as a heart attack sometimes, and have the entirely irrational view that everything in the world should be proper, rational, well-considered and intellectually honest

What do you be I won't live to be 50 before I have the mother of all strokes.

Most of the anti-war protestors piss me off; the some 40% of the people in that recent NY poll who supported the war because they believe Saddam Hussein was directly involved in 9-11 piss me off; Saddam Hussein pisses me off no end; the beltway journalists who are more interested in "access" than real reporting piss me off (thank god for Helen Thomas, who doesn't give a damn at this point in her life); Whitehouse spin calculated to best "sell the war" to the American people pisses me off; the Turks piss me off but are hardly a surprise; the Democrats who rolled over months ago and now decide to have a backbone piss me off (fire them all); the war profiteers at all levels piss me off; the French piss me off; North Korea scares me; the think tank warriors like Wolfowitz piss me off... about the only people who don't piss me off are the troops who need to do their duty like the warriors they are and wrap this **** up and get home, hopefully sometime in this decade.

My dream right now is that this war will be so successful, with such a low loss of life and with such a remarkable realignment of the region that a fair peace and solid security result. I really want to be leading the charge to elect Bush to his third term, or perhaps Rumsfeld to his first. We get to find out how smart his advisors really are now.

Charon

BTW, as for the protest guys getting the chicks... sad but true. However, this guy paid for that chick. He even had a "grip and grin" I posted which shows he has a ways to go in the marketing sophistication department (you just don't put that on the site, regardless of how pleased you are with yourself

) I could help him with his message development and copy -- make it a bit more mainstream, obscure the message a bit -- but I'd rather see him humping a pack out in the desert somewhere getting paid about $2.00/hr (we are talking 20 hour days here) to support the USA.

Puke · « **Reply #46 on:** March 22, 2003, 11:47:51 PM »

So what? Someone made a site to sell and distribute anti-France goods. And who implied that such a thing needs to have its proceeds donated to some organization?

I haven't done it, but I bet if you go to an anti-war site they will be selling goods as well.

I think I'm lost.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #47 on:** March 23, 2003, 12:01:42 AM »

He must be doing something right, because I have a strange desire to buy a T-shirt.

AronL, you still spell like s-h-i-t.

Toad · « **Reply #48 on:** March 23, 2003, 12:22:37 AM »

Charon, I read all that.

Tell me that you didn't write that much just to say that guys that make money off protest signs piss you off.

Please.

Vector · « **Reply #49 on:** March 23, 2003, 12:36:36 AM »

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Originally posted by Turdboy
Hey vector do a little reading before you post your BS.

Who gets oil from Iraq now?

Who has been helping SH for 30 years?

Who signed a U.N. resolution to act if SH didn't cooperate and then backed out of the deal we he didn't?

Who is NOW trying to get the U.N. to inforce contracts signed with Iraq for oil?

Who has flat out said they would veto ANYTHING the U.S.A. put before the U.N. regarding Iraq? Before the war even started!

All these questions can be answered with 1 word FRANCE!

The U.S./coalition forces has said when they get rid of SH they will let the people of Iraq decide who leads them.

The U.S. is also going to provide billions of dollars to the Iraqi's to help rebuild their country.

What is France going to do?

Why don't you read my BS before writing yours?
Where did I say French doesn't think of oil?
I'm not any cheerleader for France, actually, in my eyes Chirac and Bush are both absurd clowns.
Of course USA is only thinking of Iraq ppl wealth and is the only reason for being there right now, no arguing about that...
Yet another interesting information is "Number of Years a Country's Oil Reserve is expected to last" -from UN site:

1. Iraq 129 years
2. Kuwait 127 years
...
USA 10 years

Draw your conclusions as you want, but facts remains.

Toad · « **Reply #50 on:** March 23, 2003, 12:44:27 AM »

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Originally posted by Vector

Draw your conclusions as you want, but facts remains.

OK. I conclude that we'll have to buy oil on the world market from folks like OPEC and such. I conclude we'll be happy to pay in dollars and they'll be happy to take dollars.

In short, I conclude it'll work the same way it has for the last 30 years or so.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #51 on:** March 23, 2003, 12:49:03 AM »

Toad despite my best attempts to educate you I still dont think you got the point - America is going to steal the oil in Iraq...

Heres a catchy little tune to help you and everyone else remember that fact:

No war for oil!

No war for oil!

No war for oil!

Raubvogel · « **Reply #52 on:** March 23, 2003, 12:51:59 AM »

Grunherz, you idiot! First we have to kill all the Iraqi civilians, THEN we steal the oil!

Puke · « **Reply #53 on:** March 23, 2003, 01:34:28 AM »

Vector,

Quote

Draw your conclusions as you want, but facts remains.

You may have a few facts, but that does not mean your conclusions are correct. Any more than my fact that Finland is not in this war leads to the conclustion that it is because they must have 100-years of reserves.

Evidence that the USA is not in the practice of stealing land for oil is the first Gulf War. Afterall, Kuwait is in complete control of its own country and oil reserves. When Iraq is free from their dictatorship and once again an autonomous country in control of their oil fields, will you come back and publicly apologize for misreading your crystal ball? If by chance the USA actually steals the Iraqi oil fields, I'll publicly apologize for my country's actions.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #54 on:** March 23, 2003, 02:15:53 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Raubvogel
Grunherz, you idiot! First we have to kill all the Iraqi civilians, THEN we steal the oil!

Doh! How shameful of me to not remember... Then again America is so evil that one is bound to forget one of its atrocities from time to time..

Charon · « **Reply #55 on:** March 23, 2003, 01:03:39 PM »

I was just venting a little Toad.

And yeah Puke, whether you're making money off the pro-war position and using protests as a marketing opportunity, as these tools are, or making money off the anti-war position, as the professional protest organizers are, well, I find both equally disagreeable. Do you find them both agreeable? I remember a few people finding all the patriotic merchandising after 9-11 disagreeable and the musicians etc. trying to captialize on the moment disagreeable.

But it is the American way, and always has been. You can find examples at least to the Civil War, and likely to the Revolution if you look for it. As my rambling post covered, I have an idealistic view of what America should be even though I do know better. In fact, even though it isn't perfect it works pretty dammed well compared to the rest of the world. But, when we are at war, crass consumerism that uses the war effort as a marketing tool just pisses me off. Apparently it's just my personal problem.

Frankly, maybe I should give the guy a call. With some fine-tuning and a broader PR campaign to build on his grass roots efforts, he could probably open up his product line to a much broader customer base. Could probably pay for the new fence I want for the back yard.

Charon

Turdboy · « **Reply #56 on:** March 23, 2003, 02:49:12 PM »

Vector nice facts but they don't answer ANY of my questions.

Is the USA after oil? Maybe

I can't sit here and honestly say that we are not. Just don't know BUT I do know that the other reasons we are there are more important.

It's funny how almost everyone agrees that SH violated UN resolutions but no one could agree on what to do.

The UNSC members failed to do their job because of personal dealings with SH by a few members so there was NO solution in sight.

What do we do then as a Nation? Do we sit back and wait for SH to build up his arsenal to a point where all the countries around him are to afraid to say or doing anything because of the fear of being attacked?

AND on top of everything else who would be called in to handle SH if the UN had done the right thing in the first place?

The US and UK. (others also but mainly these two)

So here we are knowing the UN will not be able to do anything because a couple of countries with personal stakes in Iraq. Are we supposed to sit back and allow things to get worse? Knowing the longer we wait the harder it's going to be when we do finally go in.

What do we do?

This was the only option left to us.

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #57 on:** March 23, 2003, 03:04:54 PM »

The language Grunherz uses is quite remarkable considering he's not even a real american. He's what, first generation american?

Heck, his immigration stamp hasn't even dried properly and he's already the loudest moron on this UBB, insulting his own roots of which he for some reason thinks he's separated after changing his nationality. He has become a super american.. Or an immigrant trying to convince the bureau that he's worth keeping.. Pfft.

You're easy to see through Grun, I'd laugh if it was funny.

Puke · « **Reply #58 on:** March 23, 2003, 05:28:15 PM »

Charon,

It all depends on what the money is being made from. Actually, I think this guy is just providing a service to those who are upset with France right now. Someone walks away with a shirt that he probably could not creat on his own, and someone walks away with a few bucks. I for one do not have silk-screening equipment in my house and if I wanted an anti-France t-shirt, I would not expect this person to supply it to me for free.

Hangtime · « **Reply #59 on:** March 23, 2003, 06:13:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
The language Grunherz uses is quite remarkable considering he's not even a real american. He's what, first generation american?

Heck, his immigration stamp hasn't even dried properly and he's already the loudest moron on this UBB, insulting his own roots of which he for some reason thinks he's separated after changing his nationality. He has become a super american.. Or an immigrant trying to convince the bureau that he's worth keeping.. Pfft.

You're easy to see through Grun, I'd laugh if it was funny.

i find his credentials as an american far more apealing than yours.