Author Topic: Biggest news of the war so far. (Read 1410 times)

Pongo · « **on:** March 23, 2003, 03:20:38 PM »

I think the final refusal of Turkey to allow a second front via thier country is the biggest news of the war so far.
While it is not dire, it definalty throws a major wrench in both the stratagy and tactics of the US operation.
CNN of course is barely mentioning the issue. But look at what happens.
1/3 of the US troops, the ones intended to push south from Turkey and secure the Kurdish area and those oil fields and then pressure Bagdad from the north are still in ships on the third day of the war and will not begin to disembark till probably 4 more days.
When they do disembark they will be as far from thier original objectives as is possible and still be in Iraq. The logistical support for them will have to pore through the same ports as the other units instead of coming through the turkish ports.
Taken in its total. This is a phenominal change forced on the US war effort by Turkey. How late in the war the US still tried to get Turkey to allow the troops passage shows how serios this change is. Now those units will be part of the second week of the war. Instead of the first hour.

The only way to trump this is if the Egyptians denied the US use of the Canal.

Anyway. I think the Turkish denial of access will be the everwhelming issue identified in the history books in the first few days of this war.

Martlet · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2003, 04:49:30 PM »

I thought Turkey gave us the ok?

Fishu · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2003, 04:49:54 PM »

Just watch, turks will allow the tresspassing of US troops.

I believe it is just a bluff.

john9001 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2003, 05:45:48 PM »

too late for the turks, the ships with the 4th div equipment have been moving south for some days now.

some euro nations have hinted turkey may lose it's bid to join the EU because of this

turkey can now join the ranks of former allies along with france.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2003, 07:23:31 PM »

I don't think it's that big of a deal. The 101st could air assault pretty much anywhere in Iraq they want to. They might be a "light" division, but they have 70-some AH64s. That's more firepower than most countries. Throw in complete air supremacy and I'd say it's no biggie.

Pongo · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2003, 07:40:34 PM »

They were silly to wait so long for the turks to come along then.

Hangtime · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2003, 07:56:25 PM »

the kurds are much better allies in this than turks in any issue having to do with disposing of saddams regime and eliminating regular iraqi troops from northern iraq.

you might be shocked to discover that we've been coordinating airstrikes with the kurds who ARE now actively engaging iraqi positions, and that we are providing the kurds with VERY effective air support in their attacks both on iraqi positions and on that terrorist groups camp and surviving effectives in NE iraq.

i'd be willing to bet the US won't hesitate to support the kurds against the turks overtly if the turks violate kurd territory AND fire on kurdish troops or positions.

AtmkRstr · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2003, 08:16:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
CNN of course is barely mentioning the issue.

I hope nobody is confusing CNN with legit news. The stories they choose to cover is just as biased as Iraqi news.

Kanth · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2003, 09:26:15 PM »

I dont' watch a whole lotta news regularly but you are exactly right about CNN..

as always get your news from many sources within and from outside the US

Quote

Originally posted by AtmkRstr
I hope nobody is confusing CNN with legit news. The stories they choose to cover is just as biased as Iraqi news.

Pongo · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2003, 09:35:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime
the kurds are much better allies in this than turks in any issue having to do with disposing of saddams regime and eliminating regular iraqi troops from northern iraq.

you might be shocked to discover that we've been coordinating airstrikes with the kurds who ARE now actively engaging iraqi positions, and that we are providing the kurds with VERY effective air support in their attacks both on iraqi positions and on that terrorist groups camp and surviving effectives in NE iraq.

i'd be willing to bet the US won't hesitate to support the kurds against the turks overtly if the turks violate kurd territory AND fire on kurdish troops or positions.

Ive worked with Turks.. I agree and wasnt sugesting they are militarily worthwhile allies. But they a have a port in the med and the Kurds dont. The whole strat for this war was based on using that port to postition those 65000 men to invade from the north. The absense of that will force the US to delay a northern push or try a norther grab instead with Air mobile units.
The US was trying for the Push cause it was the best move they had. Discounting its loss takes a pretty narrow view of the situation.

Hangtime · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2003, 11:32:48 PM »

Quote

Discounting its loss takes a pretty narrow view of the situation..

Remember.. we're sitting on two massive airbases in western iraq. fields we've held since the first day. in areas we've heard absolutely NO news out of since the first day.

THAT is significant.

my assumption is thats were we'll stage in the next phase, and it'll be a big 'surprise' when it happens.

Pongo · « **Reply #11 on:** March 24, 2003, 01:03:07 AM »

I dont think its much of a supprise.
I dont think its much of an alternative to the original plan. And I dont think they would have gone ahead with this invasion if they knew they would be forced to resort to that.

Hortlund · « **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2003, 01:35:41 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime

THAT is significant.

Exactly!

Every day with no-news from Israel is a very good day. Every day with no-news about usage of wmd's is a very good day.

Now people/media are starting to rant about how fierce the Iraqi resistance is and how much they were underestimated...well, as long as there are no news from Israel or regarding wmd's, I'd say this war is going better than anyone dared to hope.

Pongo · « **Reply #13 on:** March 24, 2003, 10:02:34 PM »

Well.
MSNBC agrees with me. Took them 20 hours and some retired generals and such to catch up though.

Toad · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2003, 12:12:54 AM »

Debka is now saying 4th ID will land at Saudi Red Sea ports and cut across SA into Iraq to get into the fight faster.

If Debka is right about that, then those guys really do have some good moles.

I can't say I'm really impressed by their overall accuracy because they get some stuff really wrong but every once in a while they break some real "insider" type stuff.