Since germany captured france

[Zigrat]

and hispano was a french company, and the hispano was so much better than the MG151 (not to mention the MG/FF which is what they were using when they captured france)

why don't 190s have hispanos?

[Hangtime]

NIH

(not invented Here)

An attitude that was not enitrely German; either.

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

Incorrect!Germans used many Chezc and French tanks.
The Pz35t and Pz38t were widely used in the Western Campaigns. The 35t was better than the Pz I, II, somewhat close to but less capable than III. The 38t was as good as the 37mm PzIIIs and was also widely used in Barbarossa. Many of the French tanks were converted to Panzejagers, Normandy in 44 was full of them,  and others were used as rear guard police type vehicles and in lower intesity work vs partisans. Further use was made of captured planes for training and liason purposes. Plus many T34s were used by the germans as combat vehicles or recovery vehicles. German troops also favored some Russian weapons over their own as they were  found to be more reliable in winter conditions.

thanks GRUNHERZ

[Nath-BDP]

tanks?

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Am I mistaken, I thought this thread was about Hispanos?

[Nath-BDP]

btw Off Topic.

[GRUNHERZ]

Nath you are a national treasure.  

[Wardog]

Grunz..

We can look at this another way.

The whole world captured Germany, So why didnt the U.S.A. build and fly FW190-D or TA 152 in Korea instead of the p51?

Would lead me to think of an old addage...

If it aint broke, Dont fix it!


Dog out.....

[ra]

Slightly off topic:  One fighter the French were finishing development of just as the Germans took over was the Bloch MB-157, an improved version of the mediocre MB-152/155.

The MB-157 had an improved engine producing 1700hp at 26K.  When the Germans got around to testing the MB-157 in 1942, they found it had a top speed of 440+ mph at 26K.  This plane could have been available in 1941 had the Germans sought to develop it immediately.  Imagine a plane with good high-alt performance, a better power/weight ratio than a FW-190, and 2 Hispanos being available in 1941.

ra

[Zigrat]

i think you guys miss my point

my question was about hispano cannon? in ah is is clearly superior to mg151 so why didnt germans use it.

or at least use what they saw to make a better mg151

[Wardog]

Zig..

Ya missed my point..

Why would they do so when they where getting kills with what they had? To tool & die for a whole new setup may seem simple, but think of the logistics of switching planes to a New Cannon. All amunitions factories would have to be retooled. This takes time and Resources.

So, why fix what aint broke.

Dog out...  

[Zigrat]

wardog i think you proved my point  

I thin that in actual use the hispano and mauser were not as different as here in aces high. I know dont show me the frigging picture or use 1/2mv^s to try to prove otherwise to me, but my bet is they had just about the same killing power so THATS why they stuck with their tried and true design.

Yes yes you are all going to chime in its bigger blad blah, and i don't dispute its long range ballistic qualities should be lower, but lethality at the 3-400 yard range is too different IMHO. If it WAS so different, they would have switched.

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Zigrat:
wardog i think you proved my point  

I thin that in actual use the hispano and mauser were not as different as here in aces high. I know dont show me the frigging picture or use 1/2mv^s to try to prove otherwise to me, but my bet is they had just about the same killing power so THATS why they stuck with their tried and true design.

Yes yes you are all going to chime in its bigger blad blah, and i don't dispute its long range ballistic qualities should be lower, but lethality at the 3-400 yard range is too different IMHO. If it WAS so different, they would have switched.

Hispanos jammed. Alot. It comes with bigger casings (Lots of times the 30mm Mk 108 jammed too) The better of the 109 and 190 flyers just needed a quick burst. Some only used one shot.

Why risk spoiling it with an unproved cannon?

Same reason the US didn't switch. When ya learn a gun for two or three years it's kinda bad for the pilots to suddenly arm them with a gun they know nothing about characteristic wise. Like switching from 75 and 76mm's to 90mm in US tanks. It was one of many arguments made (with the tankers obviously having no say in it!)

- Jig

[easymo]

 WOW. Scared me. Reading the title to the thread, I thought they had done it again.

[Pongo]

Just some observations.
At the time that Germany captured france they were using the mgff cannon.(swiss design)
The mg151 was still in development and the 190 was first made with mg17s in the wings.
Only later was the 151 mounted. Still with the swiss cannon in the outer wing spots.
It seems unlikly that the wing of a 109 could take a hispano(though they did mount 30mms out there) but surely the FW could have by 1943 when it was most needed. Pretty hard to syncronize the hispano though.

The germans were in fact very fond of allied weapon design. They put into production a 120mm mortar that was a total copy of a soviet one and of course they used french tanks and arty. They made extensive use of russian field pieces and even gave the caputured ones german designations and put ammo for them in production. They saw the bazooka and developed the panzerschrek the t34 led to the panther.
The americans of course used german technology a great deal after the war. The colt m39 cannon (F86H, F8U, F5)is basically a developed copy of a german cannon that was nearing production at the end of the war. They used the V1 and V2 rockets, the , german sonar and Sub hull advances whole aircraft experimently.

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by Jigster:
Hispanos jammed. Alot. It comes with bigger casings (Lots of times the 30mm Mk 108 jammed too) The better of the 109 and 190 flyers just needed a quick burst. Some only used one shot.

Why risk spoiling it with an unproved cannon?

Same reason the US didn't switch. When ya learn a gun for two or three years it's kinda bad for the pilots to suddenly arm them with a gun they know nothing about characteristic wise. Like switching from 75 and 76mm's to 90mm in US tanks. It was one of many arguments made (with the tankers obviously having no say in it!)

- Jig

The US was fielding Hispano armed fighters  by Pearl harbour. October 41.
They knew all about the Hispano and skipped on it for most of the war.They had the gun in production. They had the ammo in production. One of their most capable fighters used it.