Author Topic: Creating Energy Management Charts (Read 2927 times)

FTJR · « **on:** April 06, 2003, 11:08:06 PM »

Does anyone have any idea on how to do this? I've got the ones published by Badz, but those are limited to a certain few aeroplanes.

I'd like to create some myself. I've done a web search but I guess that its not a popular pass time.

Thanks

wetrat · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2003, 05:12:20 PM »

No idea what you mean.

FLS · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2003, 05:54:48 PM »

Andy Bush posted the following at Sim.hq.

Making your own EM digrams is not easy.

Begin by choosing an altitude, configuration, and gross weight.

Then follow these steps. Do all flight testing from a level turn.

1. Determine corner velocity by finding the slowest speed that you can pull the charted max G. This will determine the top point on the EM chart.

2. The right side of the chart is determined by the max indicated speed of the aircraft. This is usually a flight manual number.

3. Determine the left side of the chart (the stall line) by finding the minimum speed for a given G load. Plot these points to get your left side curve.

4. The top line is your max G line and is mathematically computed by using a given G value versus selected indicated speeds. Use true airspeed in the calculation.

5. Then determine the speed at which you can sustain the most G. This will be something less than corner velocity and the G will be less than max G.

This should give you the outlines of the diagram.

--)-FLS-----
Musketeers

Blue Mako · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2003, 09:22:01 PM »

JR, get in touch with Tango and he'll give you the low down.

Batz · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2003, 09:35:37 PM »

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/air_combat/energymgmt/

But you need to test the each aircraft to get then numbers you need for the the charts.

FTJR · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2003, 04:28:09 AM »

Thanks for the links and all.

Hey Blue.. check your email mate.

Ta.

Tyro48 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 12, 2003, 06:09:06 AM »

let g= 32.2 x #of g's u pull

let RsubT= turn radius
RsubT= V^2/g x tan (b) where b=bank angle

turn rate= 180 x g ( tan (b))/pi v
v= TAS x 5280/3600 to give speed in ft/sec

relationships are for constant alt level turns

FTJR · « **Reply #7 on:** April 12, 2003, 02:04:00 PM »

err RsubT?

but I got the rest thanks;)

Maniacal81st · « **Reply #8 on:** April 12, 2003, 02:14:14 PM »

No shame in admitting this one.

Wow, I tried to follow the article and some of the diagrams. Looks very foreign to me. Is this something that is understandable with repetitive reading, or a concept that requires some other flight knowledge. Only flown AH for flight sims, never piloted a real aircraft.

<>

Major MaNiaCaL

Tyro48 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2003, 02:12:53 AM »

Just a way of seperating the two terms since they both use R and T, on is turn rate in degs/sec the other is turn radius.

FTJR · « **Reply #10 on:** April 13, 2003, 03:09:46 AM »

rgr.. got it thanks. now when I have a spare moment I'll use it.

Manical. continuous repititive head bashing against a brick wall works for me

Badboy · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2003, 09:46:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by FTJR
Does anyone have any idea on how to do this? I've got the ones published by Badz, but those are limited to a certain few aeroplanes.

I'd like to create some myself. I've done a web search but I guess that its not a popular pass time.

Thanks

Hi FTJR,

Let me know what aircraft you are interested in? I may have done the EM analysis for it already, if so I can post it here.

Also I dropped the "Badz" cpid and persona when AW died

Badboy

1Duke1 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 13, 2003, 01:15:13 PM »

Badboy,

I'd be interested in whatever EM diagrams you have. Can you post a list?

Thanks

Badboy · « **Reply #13 on:** April 13, 2003, 02:38:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 1Duke1
Badboy,

I'd be interested in whatever EM diagrams you have. Can you post a list?

Thanks

Almost all of the EM diagrams I've done so far, have been posted on these boards at some time or another, accept for the most recent... So they should all be here to find. Unfortunately, some were only posted on scenario boards that are no longer active. A quick (but not exhaustive) check through my own files shows that so far I've at least done the following aircraft:

La7
P51D
F4F4
A6M2
Yak9U
Spit Mk1
Spit MkV
Spit MkIX
109E3
109G2
109G6
109G10
F4U1C
F6F5
Fw190D9
Fw190A5
MC202
MC205
P38
P47D11
Hurri MkIIC

Some have been done for SL, 15k and 30k and some only for SL. Also, they have been done over a long period of time, so I can't vouch for the diagrams that are several patches out of date. I know I recently checked the F6F5 and the old diagram didn't match the current flight model, the current aircraft was significantly better in some respects, so either I made a mistake when I did the original data extraction, or some of its modelling parameters were changed in the meantime.

The most recent additions to that list are the La7, Yak9U and the 109G10 that I've prepared for an upcoming article at SimHQ.

Badboy

1Duke1 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2003, 09:21:19 PM »

Thanks for the list

I haven't looked over the website extensively yet, so I apologize if the answer to this question is there....What procedures do you perform to get the data points? I have knowledge of EM diagrams (I am a former F-14 pilot) but no test pilot experience Do you have a set of parameters that you follow? I would like to try and do some testing myself. If you want to email me instead of posting here: dblems@cox.net

Thanks!

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