Ta152 for Dummies

[Duedel]

... like me.

I thought this tour i'll try to fly the Ta152 a bit cause my squaddy chris3 always told me its the best plane (besides his beloved 110C4).
Surely its one of the most beautifull planes and really a fun thing to fly - if u take a few things into account:

First, yes the Ta152 originally is a high alt interceptor but this role i wont discuss here cause most fights are between 0k and 20k.

Second, yes there are "better" german planes (like the dora) but i love the challenge and they are only better if u dont take the following tips into account:

- Max. take 75% fuel (unless u want do cruse the whole Trinity map).

- Burn LW and RW tanks (wing tanks) first (while climbing) cause:
   - if empty u are sitting in a very agil and mobile fighter
   - ur wings wont rip of when pulling hard G turns

- Climb the first 7-9k with wep (its faster)

- Stay fast (>250mph) when enemies are around

- Try to stay high (cause there always be the next and higher enemy)

- Dont turn to long with better turners (N1K, Spit, P38)

- Turn long with worse turners (P51, 190D9, 109G10) cause the Ta152 is a fairly good turner (when LW and RW are empty)

- Make excessive use of deflection shots cause u have a real good gun package and good roll rate

- If ur engine is out/damaged u can glide and glide and glide and....

- When engaged by a plane with slightly more E (lets say spit, N1k) make a 0G dive and the Ta will dive away fast

- When engaged by a faster plane with slighty or much more E (lets say La7, P51) try to make him overshoot (flat tightening turn with barrel role at the end) or make a split S

- Dont forget that the Ta152 has a good acceleration (when LW and RW are empty)

The Ta152 provides u with many good features that give u a good chance even if an enemy is higher, faster and in a better turning plane. I guess its one of the most underestimated planes cause most people think one only can fly this thing at at least 25k -30k.

[gofaster]

You forgot to mention:

Try to limit your flying of them to those times when your country is outnumbered, because if you lose one it'll be less expensive that way.

[ccvi]

Originally posted by Duedel
- Burn LW and RW tanks (wing tanks) first (while climbing) cause:
 - ur wings wont rip of when pulling hard G turns
- Turn long with worse turners (P51, 190D9, 109G10) cause the Ta152 is a fairly good turner (when LW and RW are empty)
- Dont forget that the Ta152 has a good acceleration (when LW and RW are empty)

If this is all true in the game, the flight model really, well, somewhat strange.

Less fuel in the wing tanks compared to less fuel in after/rear tanks (compare at same total mass) should rather do the following things:
- wings should rip easier with light wings and heavy fuselage (less force at the inner part of the wing)
- turn rate (when flying with bank angle larger than 45 degrees) should be worse with empty wings compared to empty forward/after tanks (higher inertia in the pitch axis, which turns at high bank angles)
- acceleration should be completely unaffected

what will improve with empty wing tanks should be roll acceleration, not roll rate though.

[wetrat]

Biggest drawback and only real problem I have with the 152 is the icon. That big shiny red "152" draws dweebs from all over. Personally I think that the icons should be more generic; like "Fw" or "Fock" for 190's/152, or just "Lav" or "La" for LA7/LA5, simply F4U for the 4-hog, and just SPIT for the spit14. It would make for much more enjoyable perked sorties. And apart from that, it is relatively difficult to distinguish between the perked-variant and it's more common relatives... for an LA you'd be quite hard-pressed to tell even when engaged.

I kinda started ranting there... not trying to hijack

[Urchin]

Hum.. Ta152 for Dummies.  

Rule #1:  Leave it in the hangar, where it belongs.

Rule #2:  See rule number 1.

Rule #3:  See rule number 2.

[Wilbus]

Emptying wing tanks first won't get you a betyer turn rate, it's a rumor that has been going on for some time. Turn rate is mostly affected by weight and wing area. The bigger the wings are the less weight per square/meter the better turn rate. Emtying wing tanks will of course give less weight per square/meter but no more then emptying fwd or aft tanks, the fuel is the same. Emtpying aft tank will give you a better CG (for turning, will make the plane somewhat more nose heavy and less prone to stall and spin as the Ta152 has a very very thin line between controlled flight/good turn and spin).

Emtpying wing tanks first does seam to make them less prone to ripping off. Wether this is right or wrong I am not sure of, it seams right IMO as more weight further away from a solid stable source will give a bigger momentum.

As for acceleration, the Ta152 is the #21 on the new list of best accelerating planes at 18k. That is in level flight. In dives it accelerates fairly well.

It is underestimated though and a great deal of fun to fly, my other thoughts of the way it has been modelled I will leave out of this thread as I have stated them many times before.

[ccvi]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Emtpying wing tanks first does seam to make them less prone to ripping off. Wether this is right or wrong I am not sure of, it seams right IMO as more weight further away from a solid stable source will give a bigger momentum.

It's the whole wing that creates lift (not with an even distribution but the whole wing). Emptying the wing tanks makes more mass rest on the center.
Imagin a bar on two rests. Drop a mass on the center between them. Now split the mass in two pieces and drop both of them outside of the center. In which case would the bar break easier?

[moot]

Here is roughly where tanks lie in Ta152:
53 is Fwd, 52 is Aft, wings are apparently more forward, worst possible position would be right at the side of flaps which is not likely.

[moot]

Obviously the wings brake easier in high G turns if they are filled, but you are probably braking the rules of flying the 152 safely (in the MA) as well if you do turn so tight.
Like Wilbuz says the stall isnt the same as the D9's, the beginning of stall is what's most different, and counter-steering/recovery against the stall is also a little different at least because the plane is so much heavier, almost like flying an F4U, if you brake the point of no return it's not as snappy as the D9 to put back in the right direction.

-If you empty aft last the nose is more stable for example when you need it to stay where you point it at high speed on bombers for example,
-if you empty fwd last you have more stability in stall during turns, almost like if you'd emptied the wings except
-if you empty the wings last, you get, in addition to stable stall in turns, a bit more mushy handling near limit of stall, and the wings having more weight, will start to flop around near the stall limit, the roll is more of a handful.
You turn a bit better but it's such a little advantage it's really up to you to prefer one or the other. If you are trying that hard to turn slow, it's probably more effective to fly better/smarter etc.

[Wilbus]

ccvi, we're discussing high G turns. Oppisite of your example where of course the wing brake easier if there is more weight in the center (if the wings rest on the wing tips). But in a high G (possitive G) the wings shouldn't brake as easily if they are light.

No need to explane the dummy way for me ccvi, I've read quite alot about it in school although I don't remember as much as I'd like to. But you example only matters in negative G's where the mass of the plane actually rests on the center of the wing. In positive G's this is not the case as the wing is is mounted bellow the entire fuselage on the 190's and Ta152.

SO AH seems to be right in this case...

[ccvi]

Wilbus, what you're saying would imply that emptying the wing tanks makes the wings break later when pulling positive, and earlier when pushing negative Gs. LOL.
Why do most fighters carry their bombs under the wings instead of the fuselage? Surely because it's so easy to get the release actuators build in there...

[Urchin]

What I am saying is that in Aces High anyway, emptying the wing tanks does make your wings less fragile.  

A Ta152 with full wing tanks can pull about 7Gs before the wings snap.  With empty wing tanks it can do at least 9.  

Feel free to test this yourself, it isn't that hard.  Take a 152 up offline, turn on your film recorder and turn until your wings snap.  Then take off again, empty the wing tanks and turn until your wings snap.  Since blackouts aren't rendered in the film viewer, you can watch the G meter to determine the G-load at which your wings snapped.

[ccvi]

I have no doubt that it is the case in the game.

[Urchin]

Actually, let me be more clear in expressing my distaste for this plane.  

Below 10,000 feet, it is utterly worthless.  

Where all of the fighting takes place (10k and down), the Ta152 cannot win in a fight against any of the top 10 unperked planes.  With equal pilots that is, I'm sure some people can fly a spit poorly enough to get killed by a Ta152, but usually after their two weeks is up these people decide to play something else.  

Between 10 and 20k, it is only marginally worthless.  You still won't have a chance against any Spit (Spit 1 excluded), N1K, any 190, any 109, an La7, either P51, any F4U, any P47, a P38, wait wait, this list is going to be to long.  

Between 10 and 20k, if you see a plane co alt, or within a couple thousand feet of you, you are going to do one of two things.  A. Die, or B. Run.  Exceptions to this rule include the 109E and the Spit 1.  Occasionally you will be able to out-zoom a co-E Spit 1 or 109E, I wouldnt try it with anything else though.

Above 20k, the Ta152 starts coming into its own.  While its climb rate and acceleration still suck ass, so does the climb rate and acceleration of just about every plane except the Spit 9, the 109G10, and the U.S. planes.  If you meet any of the above, you will still die.  If you manage to find a 110G gasping along at 25k, I'd give the Ta152 50/50 odds or so.

The Ta152 was actually made to shoot down satellites in low orbit.  The Germans would have the pilot take off a week in advance (to climb to altitude, and then accelerate to speed), and would then direct the pilot to the satellite via radar tracking.  Since we don't have any satellites in AH, the plane isnt a very good choice.

[Wilbus]

Now I doubt you actually know anything about the issue ccvi.

Take a wing that weights 1000 kg (example) and one that weights 500 kg.

Pull 2 G's. One wing will weigh 2000 kg and the other one 1000 kg. They are both the same material and built for the same thing, difference is they have different amount of fuel in them thus different weights. Wich wing do you think will rip first, the one that has 2000 kg on it or the one with 1000 kg weight on it?

Might wanna take back that little LOL of yours.

And btw, yes the wings brake easier in negative G's, most wings do but that's cause they aren't designed to take as many negative G's and positive.

AND NO, I did NOT say that they brake earlier when pulling Negative G's when the tanks are empty compared to full, how on earth could you missread it like that? Must take alot of skill from your side. Of course they brake later when pulling negative G's when emtpy aswell.

Did you understand me this time or will I have to clearify it even more for you?