The Last Panzer IV thread I'm ever making

[Batz]

No what?

Thats a US pt boat, its made of wood and yes moderate strafing would sink it.

I dont care what "other" nations pts did or were made of. The one in AH is made of wood.

[Nilsen]

"any amount of moderate strafing would be enough to kill it"

define that if you will Batz

[Nifty]

remember, in AH if your pilot gets killed, your ride (plane, GV or PT) will instantly explode.

I think almost every PT boat "explosion" is the result of a pilot kill as the people in the boat are completely unprotected.  Same thing with the M-16.  They are basically out in the open.

One issue is that with GVs and PTs, if the pilot/driver dies, you shouldn't lose the vehicle.  The rest of the crew can still fight with the pilot being dead.  The vehicle just isn't going anywhere.

[HawkerMKII]

Sounds like some of the MANY gv bugs in this game that WONT be fixed.

[gofaster]

Its about time a campaign was launched against the .50cal/20mm air cannon strafing death of Panzers!  I've been in silent protest of it - since I don't really know enough about armour to put forth any sort of coherent, logical argument against the current lethality/damage modeling.

I say give the tanks the testicles they deserve!

[Karnak]

Hmmm.  Since the last tank armor change I've found that straffing PnZ IVs is a complete waste of time in anything short of an Il-2, even then it takes me multiple passes.

In my nominal ride, the quad Hispano armed Mosquito, I have had no effect unless I come right at the tank's rear with my props practically mowing the grass, eg, as low as I can so that I have as close to a 90 degree striking angle with my rounds on the rear hull armor as I can get.  Even then it takes about 600 rounds (almost all of the Mosquito's load) to destroy a single Panzer IV H.

I have't seen a single pass gun kill on a Panzer since the changes introduced with the Tiger.

On the other hand I have had Panzer's one ping my Mossie with the 7.92mm, despite the pilot armor.

[SLO]

very easy to do.....

mosquito WILL disable a tank....1 or 2 passes...3rd or 4th will destroy it....do it all the time now.

the 1 that is harder then a tank to kill(more like explode not just disable) would be the Flak....

1 ex: I put 2 500 pounders right down its turret.....got em to smoke.....made 5 passes with mossie guns...and still that %$@^%# was shootin his main gun.....other times I just looked at the Flak...and it explodes

but like HT said....its NOT a GV game...but a Flight SIM

[BenDover]

Originally posted by Batz
the pt was made of wood; while it should not explode like it does (nothing in ah should) any amount of moderate strafing would be enough to kill it.

The pt boat needs its smoke generated to work. Its modeled its just not "working".

What smoke?

And how do you know its modeled?

[MrLars]

...from a strafing run try this...

When you're under attack and the enemy hasn't any bombs, drop down to 4th gear so you can turn quickly for the snapshot after he passes, always point the front of the tank at the attacker. This will both present your thickest armor to him as well as protecting you're tracks.

Aim the pintle gun at one wingtip and hit that spot on all his passes...shooting the prop disk can smoke his engine but it won't make the plane unflyable.....most times. You can rip off a wing tip on his first pass...then listen for the

If the plane has bombs drive the tank directly 180 degrees at him then turn perpindicular to his flight path when he's at D1800 or so...a green pilot will use his rudder to compensate then miss.

If the plane is on a rocket run, once again present your most heavely armored part of the tank at him...the front.

If a plane makes either a bomb, rocket or strafing run at you from 12 o'clock high or close to it, kiss your bellybutton goodbye 'cause 75% of the time you'll die if the pilot is any kind of a good shot or egg/rock tosser.

I believe that the GV damage model is cumulitive and it's no suprise to me that there are some claims of kills by a single strafing pass...I've killed a Tiger with a single rocket near miss.....but he was pounded first by bombs...I got the assist.

[aac]

but like HT said....its NOT a GV game...but a Flight SIM

My thoughts exactly the gvs need to be for base defense and not for aggressive play.  In the past few months this game has gotten to where it looks like it is trying to compete with WWII online.  I thought HT made the above statement several times in the past but it is beginning to be where the gvs are taking control of the game play.

[Urchin]

bump

[Midnight]

Urchin

I agree. It's simple really. Bouncing bullets off the road and penatratring tank armor is impossible. Why?

1. Angle of inflection = angle of defelction, simple physics. If the bullet hit the road at a shallow enough angle to bounce, it would hit the tank armor at roughly the same angle.. thus bounce off the armor.

2. Paved roads would be softer than tank armor, most likely causing an API round from a .50 to penatrate the road slightly before ricochet (if at all) and loose velocity.

3. Packed sand / dirt roads might be hard enough to deflect a round or two, but see #1.

Anyway, it is my experience that a P-51 with 6x .50s cannot kill a Panzer on it's own. The panzer is either previously hit by bomb or rocket or cannon, and the then I might throw a few rounds at it to get an assist.

[MetaTron]

That would be untrue Midnight. I dont know whether it is a game concession or not but 50 cals can kill a panzer. Just last night I strafed four out of four panzers until they exploded. The first one I killed in one pass and he exploded within three or four hits. Having said that I will add that I would think it should be possible for a P51 to knock out a panzer. Otherwise the game might not be as fun. Realism sometimes has to take a backseat.

[Midnight]

Why should realism take a backseat when it comes to this?

If you want to kill a tank, you should have to do it with bombs, rockets, or the right types of cannon.

A .50 should not be able to get you awarded kills on Panzers or Tigers.

Armor is armor, and if it can stop a bullet, it should be able to without some gameplay consession work around for the gamer masses.

[Batz]

http://w1.183.telia.com/~u18313395/normandy/articles/airpower.html

According to the above even bombs and rockets weren't that effective in killing armor.