Guns do not cause crime - liberals do

[funkedup]

DMF I did a huge edit, sorry.  I think it just reinforces your reply anyways.

Sirloin: Step Into My Office!!!

[AKIron]

So, does this mean that Gore invented crime?

[J_A_B]

Crime is not always disproportionate to low-income people.  Certain types of crime, yes--and certainly the most visible types of crime (like assault or robbery or murder/manslaughter)--but there are plenty of crimes which tend to be overwhelmingly comitted by people who are NOT suffering financial hardship (say computer fraud for example, or insider trading, or embezzelment, or malfeasance or such crimes).    The more "violent" crimes tend to be commited by people with low incomes most likely because a poor criminal doesn't have the tools available to commit the more sophisticated types of crimes.      If don't have a computer to crack into the target's bank accounts, you can still break his legs and steal his wallet.


Then there's other crimes that are pretty common through all income levels, such as domestic violence.  Of course the image-conscious wealthy are less likely to report such crimes which will skew statictics.

Another thing which will skew the statictics is the statistics are usually based on CONVICTIONS, not as much on cases filed--and it is a simple fact that the wealthy can get better legal representation than the poor can.  This isn't right from a moral standpoint, but like it or not that's how it is.

Crime is a big problem.  But calling it just a "poor" problem means turning a blind eye to some of the worst crimes comitted.


J_A_B

[Steve]

Jab, the post was about murder rates.. I added"violent crime"

and yes.. viloent crimes are immensely more prevalent among the poor.

[rc51]

Originally posted by AKIron
So, does this mean that Gore invented crime?

LOL:)

[J_A_B]

Depends on the type of violent crime Steve.  As I noted above, some crimes like Domestic Violence commonly occur throughout all income levels, and in all parts of the country.  

It is a fallacy to "prove" that crime is "caused by liberals" by using as evidence a single crime that tends to happen mainly in urban areas, all the while knowing that those same urban areas tend to fall more on the liberal end of the political spectrum.  Use a different crime, like DV, and poof--the "evidence" just evaporates.

In my opinion liberals don't cause crime, criminals do.  That and complacency.  

J_A_B

[lazs2]

you can really get some interesting results if you show white homicide rates in the U.S. vs gun ownership and then do black homicide vs ownership.  That would not bew fair tho if you used legal guns as "ownership" but I don't know how else you could do it.
lazs

[Montezuma]

Originally posted by lazs2
so everyone agrees?   women and big city dwellers should not be allowed to vote?
lazs

That is an interesting idea, as long as we didn't have to pay taxes either.

However, that would leave us with a military that could be beaten by Canada's.

[Wlfgng]

so everyone agrees? women and big city dwellers should not be allowed to vote?

I like the idea.. and who says they don't have to pay taxes !!!

tax the hell out of the FOR living in the city !!!

[Steve]

I didn't say anything about liberals causing crime.  I said poorly educated, poorly raised people are more prone to commit violent crimes. You are going to pick a specific violent crime? Gimme a break.  Look, you may not like it because it goes against what you would like to believe but this is a fact:  violent crime is more prevalent in low income areas than otherwise and low income areas tend to vote democratic.  You actually said "depends on the type of crime."  We are talking about violent crime here, and the evidence is indesputable.  Let's assume that one specific type of violent crime is equally spread across all income levels.... let's go with your domestic violence.

Let's see, does it change my original statement at all, which was:Poorly raised and educated people are more prone to violence and to vote democratic."   ?
No it doesn't.

[cpxxx]

"If fewer guns meant a safer society, then England and Canada would be the safest countries in the world. They aren't."

Wlfgang, both are safer than America overall.

Reading through this thread. I've come to two conclusions:

If the poor and badly educated are the most violent then the relatively easy availability of guns in America just makes it worse.

If the poor and badly educated are the most violent? Wouldn't it be a good idea at the very least improve the education system so that they can get jobs and stop being poor so that one day they can grow up and buy a gun to protect their home from the poorly educated.

The best welfare system is a good education.

Just a thought.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people?
No people with guns kill people. People without guns have to use their imagination!

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Steve
low income areas tend to vote democratic.  

Unions are more likely to vote democratic too. Electricians,masons,capenters, etc. Democrats tend to support higher wages where repubs tend to support lower wages. So of course low income areas will vote democratic. When you see a minimum wage dispute is a case in point. So if you are working at or near minimum wage, you will support the party who wants to raise it.

As for violent criminals, I'de say 99% don't even vote(or even care)

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by cpxxx
The best welfare system is a good education.

Amen. My mom went through job training instead of welfare. She got a job at raytheon where she worked for years.(count her in on dems for military spending)

BTW, still have my "patriot missile tour" t-shirt from '91'

[lazs2]

The reason that the young, the union members, the minorities  and the poor vote democrat is.... because they are the ones most likely to feel that they will get something for nothing... they are also the ones least likely to want to blame themselves for their situation... human nature... they are also the most familiar with entitlements.
lazs

[Wlfgng]

cpxxx it was for beetle

besides, they still are NOT the SAFEST places..

The best welfare system is a good education.

amen