51 B - La7 question

[BDBAL]

I really enjoy flying the 51 B model, does the all round for me. My question is, after a jabo run, or a fight that gets below 10k, I run into the ubiquitious La7; usually in a crowded environment.

If I get bounced low, the 51 B can't outrun the La7, doesnt have La7's acceleration, lighter guns, etc. Have you guys a acm move to help shake a closing La7 ;specifically dead 6 and low, 2k to deck? I have tried unsuccesfully for overshoot by barrel rolling and juking, but La7 acceleration gets them back in position. Unfortunately I think I am resigned to this death.

Yes, I am aware to always stay high, but sometimes the La7 airforce is out. Thanks, for any advice.

DOWbdbal

[Z0mBe]

BDBAL,

IF you can, try to sucker him into turning with you.  I drop flaps and chop the gas while turning down and under him.  If he follows, simply go round and round.  If not, pull down into a "pure" split-S, retract flaps, hit the gas and extend out for a second and repeat.

Also, grab altitude each second you can.  While you are extending, climb just a little as you come out of the split-S.  This might help even your e-states.  With even e-states, the pony-b and the 4-gunned pony-d can stick with the la-7 in turning.  Don't forget to retract your flaps every second you are not turning with the La-7.  In short, pretend you are a zeke getting bnz'd by a pony.

Finally, do NOT try to do scissors with the La-7 at high speeds.  Slow the La-7 down, and he dies.

Hope that helps.  It works for me in p-51s and sometimes in the p38.



Z0mBe

P.S.  The pony-d with four guns begins to outrun the La-7 at only 7.5k and is BARELY outturned by the pony-b.

[gofaster]

Your guns reach farther than his guns.  Yo-Yo for an HO but break off at d500 or so.

You might try doing a flat turn and hoping he's dumb enough to follow you. If he's not alone, or if he goes nose-high to turn, he'll have you because you'll have blown your energy.  Use your flaps to improve turn radius.  You have more ammo than he does, so don't be afraid to take low-percentage shots.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by BDBAL
I really enjoy flying the 51 B model, does the all round for me. My question is, after a jabo run, or a fight that gets below 10k, I run into the ubiquitious La7; usually in a crowded environment.

If I get bounced low, the 51 B can't outrun the La7, doesnt have La7's acceleration, lighter guns, etc. Have you guys a acm move to help shake a closing La7 ;specifically dead 6 and low, 2k to deck? I have tried unsuccesfully for overshoot by barrel rolling and juking, but La7 acceleration gets them back in position. Unfortunately I think I am resigned to this death.

Yes, I am aware to always stay high, but sometimes the La7 airforce is out. Thanks, for any advice.

DOWbdbal

From a dead 6 and low ...

You have to try to get the La-7 into a SLOW scissors.  If you don't, you will die. La-7 has a bad snap roll when real slow and trying to execute scissors.

If you try a flat/sharp turn, and the La-7 is in a lag pursuit, you will die.

If you try a flat/sharp turn, and the La-7 is in a lead pursuit, the La-7 only needs to perform a high yo-yo (good climber when slow), and you will die eventually.

Bottom line is that you need to survive long enuff to get them into a slow scissors without snap rolling yourself.

[wetrat]

Mustangs are terrible knife fighters... if you're gonna stay alive and/or kill the LA-7, you need to be the better pilot by far.

[WldThing]

Originally posted by wetrat
Mustangs are terrible knife fighters... if you're gonna stay alive and/or kill the LA-7, you need to be the better pilot by far.

I gotta say i disagree...One thing that the P-51 can do is knife fight.  Ive slowed down to 60-80 MPH during knife fights.  Me and Shane have dueled P-51 vs La7's in the DA 8k Alt, and i think he can agree with me.

[Batz]

The la7 has terrible low speed handling. It will snap roll or stall in a low speed scissor. But if the la7 pilot is smart he will climb and watch you bleed your e then come back and kill you.

Most la7s pilots are noobs and suck. You won't out run or out accellerate or out climb them. The best thing to do is to get umm slow and fumbling. 1/2 the time they will auger. Use you flaps and change directions often. But dont roll back into is guns if you roll over your lower wing you will stay under his nose.

[Hornet]

51B is better handling at high speed and at low speeds, so you want avoid that mid-range sweet spot area for the La7. So I really think in terms of a Plan A and Plan B. Ideally you want a highspeed overshoot. Lets you get your kill and get out. 51B is great to hide your E in and its the best sucker move on La7 newbie's who wanna horde that E and dont touch their throttle too much. Combine that with a general overconfidence in the La7s accel to bail them outta trouble and if you can hit your shots you'll do well.

Plan B is to drop the bottom out of that fight, if you miss at high speed get the fight as low and slow as possible. Seems counter-intuitive in a Mustang, but with its flaps its the better airframe down there. Let the La7 pilot with his poor ballistics and view over the nose for snap shots worry bout that snap roll when your 100IAS 10ft off the deck. 51B can win a scissors, rolling scissors, and the old nasty 1 turn circle as long as that aft tank is empty.

Main thing is stay aggressive, don't let him creep up to 1.5 on your 6 before starting the fight.

[Hap]

i think your key phrase was "crowded enviroment."  now as what to do depends on what you're wanting.  if its to kill someone, go do it.  but it sounds like you want more or something else . . . maybe land sucessfully?

knowing when to bug out is one of the last things a pilot learns.  also, after a jabo run to plan your escape route which means you have to be heading that way to begin you bomb run.

now as to the trophy prize, lol, jabo run in a crowded enviroment, nail a few & land successfully . . . well everytime you turn your stick you spend some e . . . if getting home is more imt that a kill or two at the cost of you being killed, keep that in mind.

as far as laffers go, you can't expect to go into their neighbourhood & get off scott free.  make your jabo run, extend, wait for your buddies to show up then reengage.  least that's what i do . . . good luck

[Hap]

knife fite knife fite knife fite . . . slow sissors lmao did you miss the "crowded enviroment part?"

[Montezuma]

Originally posted by WldThing
I gotta say i disagree...One thing that the P-51 can do is knife fight.  Ive slowed down to 60-80 MPH during knife fights.  Me and Shane have dueled P-51 vs La7's in the DA 8k Alt, and i think he can agree with me.

So were you ever able to beat his La-7 with your P-51?

[Urchin]

I've killed Shane in an La-7 numerous times in a P-51.  The P-51 handles better slow.

[SlapShot]

make your jabo run, extend, wait for your buddies to show up then reengage ... lmao ... did you miss the part "shake a closing La7 ;specifically dead 6 and low, 2k to deck"

I did miss the "crowded" part. If thats the case, then he has more to worry about than just the La-7. If the La doesn't get ya first, then you will have been forced to turn and the following "conga" line with drub the crap out of ya.

BDBAL .. I think you got it right in your first post ... you are "resigned to this death

[Montezuma]

Originally posted by Urchin
I've killed Shane in an La-7 numerous times in a P-51.  The P-51 handles better slow.

In the DA or the MA?

[WldThing]

.