Communism

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by crabofix
Well Grunherz, hope they deport ya back to "yogolan" where you belong.

Why would they? America is great, they allow yoy to think freely.

Hey look I'll put up Pinochet's and  Franco's record up any day with jus about any of your dear communist leaders - the two of them will come out looking like mother theresa in comparision.

But I have no doubts you just earn for some good old communism - sure must look like all roses from sweden - so I find it funny how you should mention I go back to ex communist country...

Allow me to put it to youy quite honestly:

COMMUNISM = GREATEST EVIL OF ALL TIME

[Boroda]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Why would they? America is great, they allow yoy to think freely.

You must be not the best example. Looks like they make you think like senator McCarthy (sp?)

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ

Hey look I'll put up Pinochet's and  Franco's record up any day with jus about any of your dear communist leaders - the two of them will come out looking like mother theresa in comparision.

But I have no doubts you just earn for some good old communism - sure must look like all roses from sweden - so I find it funny how you should mention I go back to ex communist country...

Allow me to put it to youy quite honestly:

COMMUNISM = GREATEST EVIL OF ALL TIME

Ignorance is mush worse.

Unlike nazism, Communism is a positive ideology, and has a right to exist.

GH, I again asvise you to read "Rebel" by Albert Camus. If the whole book is too hard for you to read, you can easily find two chapters abaout nazism and Communism.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Boroda

Unlike nazism, Communism is a positive ideology, and has a right to exist.

Communism has rights? Maybe humans have rights, not idealisms.

Name one communist nation that allows it's citizens to have freedom of speach.

[straffo]

Originally posted by NUKE
Communism has rights? Maybe humans have rights, not idealisms.

Name one communist nation that allows it's citizens to have freedom of speach.

Name one right-wing extremist military dictature where you have freedom of speach ?

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ


BTW Straffo i have still not gotten your 2nd email..

Will repost it (or better rewrote it).

Btw you need to read better documentation about spain civil war...
And about Allende too.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by straffo
Name one right-wing extremist military dictature where you have freedom of speach ?

I can't name one. What's your point?

[Lizard3]

Originally posted by SaburoS

Amazing what just one word will do to a statement/question.

But that one word made ya think didn't it.

[blue1]

As vorticon said Communism as practised in Russia was not a Marx envisaged.  In fact Russia was the last place he would have expected it to be put into practice.  Britain was one country but certainly Germany were more likely. You see Russia was a country of rural peasants with limited industrial capacity. Unlike Germany or Britain which were heavily industrialized and had a huge and exploited working class. The proletariat
But despite that Communism is in fact more of a middle class aspiration. The working classes tend to concentrate on survival and bettering themselves. That's still true to a large extent. I wager if you checked out the backgrounds of most reclaim the streets/anti-capitalist/anti-war/anti-globalization participants you will find that they are all the sons and daughter of Doctors, Lawyers, Professors and assorted intellectuals racked with guilt at their privileged and moneyed backgrounds seeking to improve the lot of others.  As ever the blue collar workers for the most part depend on the jobs created by the capitalists and are not inclined to bite the hand that feeds them. Armies too consist of the poor and the working class seeking to better themselves. That's a simplification but I think it holds true.

Not being American I can only speculate but I suspect that the most virulent anti communists in America are the ordinary blue collar workers.

But then I also believe that communism and socialism is heavily misunderstood in America. Seen perhaps as a huge monolithic conspiracy to introduce a something like the old Soviet Union. In fact not even communist countries do that anymore. China may be still rather repressive but capitalism thrives under the the new order. Communism as an idealogy is largely dead. There are still communists particularly in South America where there is a long history of repressive right wing governments supported by the US in countries with a huge population of poverty stricken peasants and workers and a small rich ruling elite. So naturally communism is seen as attractive. Cuba is a good example. Castro was educated and middle class. Cuba was led by a US supported dictator. Castro overthrew the dictator and set up a communist regime. The rest we know is history.

The question is the old chicken and egg situation.  What comes first? Has American fears of communism in South America created more communists than it prevented.

The truth is that communism in it's purest form is dead and gone. What's left is in effect all the forms of socialism. Tony Blair is a socialist. Castro is a socialist. There is quite a difference.  North Korea is the last of the old style communist regimes.  They can't feed their own people and it's only a matter of time before it implodes on itself.

Communism is no longer a threat to anyone least of all America. It's a product of the ninteenth century. The big threat these days is from the extreme right wing, fascism is still there despite or perhaps because of Hitler. Religious fundamentalism is a close relative of fascism. That is the new threat.

9/11 was not perpetrated by communists.

[Lizard3]

Originally posted by Boroda
You must be not the best example. Looks like they make you think like senator McCarthy (sp?)

Ignorance is mush worse.

Unlike nazism, Communism is a positive ideology, and has a right to exist.

GH, I again asvise you to read "Rebel" by Albert Camus. If the whole book is too hard for you to read, you can easily find two chapters abaout nazism and Communism.

Actually, whats so wrong with McCarthy? He foamed at the mouth a bit much, but he was what we needed, when we needed it. He exposed a number of commi's in our government for what they were. Commi trash. Anyway, we had McCarthy, what did you call the party people who jailed thousands on rumors alone? Godforbid someone speaks up against something or publishes some poetry in France. That will get ya 10 years in the gulags. Am I right?

Jewish? Disappear forever...

I'll take ignorance any day to being a slave of some dimwitted sadistic evil chosen few.

What about communism is positive? Upward mobility? When half your countrymen are dead, someones got to get the good jobs eh? In the early years there's no shortage of housing as half your neigbors are dead eh?

Communism is a disease. A disgusting putrid plague on humanity that is thankfully being removed from the body human.

Communism has wreaked more death and misery on humanity than any other form of governement  to date.

It has the right to de-exist.

[vorticon]

whats positive about communism...well your obviously reffering to the moder military dictatorships calling themselves communists and not the real communism that was envisiond orignally by marx

the differences are as big as the original "free market" society and modern day united states...wich is modelled after that idealism...

how many of you have actually read the communist manifesto??? i have and i can see why it took hold in russia instead of germany or britain...because most of the population in the latter was already middle class they didnt really care if the rich got poorer or the poor got richer


on a base level both extremes in the idealist governments actually have a lot in common its just they have a different way of acheiving those...

as a canadian i can see past the propoganda anti this that and the other put forward by either side...

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Boroda
You must be not the best example. Looks like they make you think like senator McCarthy (sp?)

 

Ignorance is mush worse.

Unlike nazism, Communism is a positive ideology, and has a right to exist.

GH, I again asvise you to read "Rebel" by Albert Camus. If the whole book is too hard for you to read, you can easily find two chapters abaout nazism and Communism.

First of all I hate communism beacause I chose to, unlike you I did not through all the brainwahing back in my old commnist country- they just started but I got out in time...


Second, I agree with you 100% communiosm is a positive ideology and nazism is a negative one.

A communist will kill you and starve you and club you over the head because he loves you. A nazi will do the same because he hates you.

And thats what mkes communism so much more evil, it is very appealing to so many decent warm hearted people and quickly they get sucked into justifying and ignoring all of communism excesses and horrors on the basis they are doing something good for the people.

Thats why you have communist organizations all over college campuses - its positvie and flowery - in theory. In paractice it has proven to be nothing but a disaster and hundreds of millons have died and suffered.

And no I will not accept any revisonist appoligist BS that some mythical form or "real" communism is still out there and has not been given a chance to flower yet - it has all been tried and the result has always been nationwide and worldwide catastrophe.  For humanty's sake give it up and move on...

And it should not surproise us at all that communism is inherntly inworkable as the lazy Marx came up with it while being fully finacially supported by his sugardaddy boyfriend Engles - who himself was the privlaged lazy son of a succesful industrialist - daddy gave him a factory to run all by himself. I'll just say the two of them had unrealistic experiences when it came to econmics and work.

So in the end and with a chorus of hundreds of millions of communism's victims voices in spirit I say:

COMMUNISM IS THE GREATEST EVIL OF ALL TIME

Nothing is even close...

[straffo]

Originally posted by NUKE
I can't name one. What's your point?

here :

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
God Bless General Pinochet!

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Lizard3
But that one word made ya think didn't it.

Sure did  

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by straffo
here :

Well straffo since Allende was a communist stooge and a friend of castro he would have outlaed free speech pretty quickly and that would have been it. So what Pinochet did was no worse.

Even human rights watch can only say this:

- A total of 3,197 people died or went missing between September 11, 1973 and March 11, 1990 as a result of human rights violations at the hands of the state agents of repression.

- Of these 1,102 classify as disappeared and 2,095 as deaths.

So in all his evil only 3,000 people were killed. Compare that to Allende's friend and mentor fidel Castro.

And lets not forget Pinochet gave up power in 1990 and since there has been a process towards denmocracy and elections, something I have yet to see allende's friend castro do.

Dont get carried away by Allendes lies and ptopaganda he was an evil communist and dictator in the making who would have made chile into cuba and murdered tens of thousands and made sounth america even more of a cold war battleground lededing to even more reginal unrest and suffereing.

[straffo]

I don't care of what Allende could have done ...
I'm more concerned by what Pinochet has done.

Not that I support Castro either.

[GRUNHERZ]

Of course it was unfortunate and uncomfortable what Pinochet did - everyone knows the brainwashed communist radical is always hard to deal with and must be dealt with hard, but from historical experience I dont think anyone can ultimately deny the communist Allende would have done far far worse things...