Author Topic: New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots  (Read 2080 times)

Offline Sikboy

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New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2003, 02:49:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Maybe I've overestimated Russian technology, but I'm pretty sure those fighter jets come equipped with missiles and/or guns.  


The People's fearless pilot was much too brave for guns and missiles.

-Sik
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline midnight Target

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New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2003, 02:51:59 PM »
Hey! Rod.....

Thats my picture in your avatar!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cool!

Offline LePaul

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New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2003, 04:06:51 PM »
I just thought it was ironic the pilot's name was Wong Wei (Wrong Way)

Offline Boroda

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New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2003, 01:55:55 PM »
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Originally posted by Sox62
How did you come up with this ridiculous analogy?

So your saying the much smaller and slower boat equates to an agile supersonic fighter?

Or the much larger and faster tanker equates to a lumbering surveillance plane?


Well, MiG-21 isn't an "agile" plane.

Smaller boat has an opportunity to turn/stop/accelerate, while a huge cargo ship is like a train...

Offline Boroda

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New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2003, 01:58:20 PM »
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Originally posted by AWMac
Boroduh the U.S. plane was in International airspace at the time of the ramming Dipchit.  Amazing that these Ruskies still believe the 'ol communist drivel....:rolleyes:


I just try to find some explainations according to traditional understanding of "duty".

Do you really think anyone will admit that US plane invaded Chinese airspace?...

Why do you Westerners always mention "communism" as if it means anything now in Russia?...

Offline GRUNHERZ

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New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2003, 01:59:55 PM »
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Originally posted by Boroda


Why do you Westerners always mention "communism" as if it means anything now in Russia?...



Largely because of raving lunatics like you...

Offline GRUNHERZ

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New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2003, 02:07:17 PM »
"Well, MiG-21 isn't an "agile" plane. "

Especially when its flying at high AOA with flaps down at near minimum flying speed as it tries fly only feet from of slow bellybutton P3 Orion prop plane.... :rolleyes:

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2003, 02:08:05 PM »
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Maybe I've overestimated Russian technology, but I'm pretty sure those fighter jets come equipped with missiles and/or guns.  Generally if you desire to destroy an enemy, it's preferable to just shoot him down instead of bravely sacrificing oneself at the cost of years of training and one aircraft.

Even you're not stupid enough to believe this one, Boroda.  I'll chalk it up to a troll.

-- Todd/Leviathn


Hmm... I don't know, but it's possible that Chinese pliot had orders not to use his weapons against Orion. I hope you understand that there is some difference between shooting the recon plane and ramming it. In some cases "accident" is a more "safe" explaination then trying to persuade "international community" that they had (or thought they had) the right to shoot the enemy....

In USSR sometimes interceptor pilots got the orders to "push the invader out of Soviet airspace", without permission to use weapons.  AFAIK such things happened with Soviet Tu-95s too, when NATO fighters collided with them trying to make them leave the area around CV groups.

Offline Boroda

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New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2003, 02:21:54 PM »
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
boroda, a couple of corrections-

1. I don't have a link to the us/china incident but if I remember correctly (And I'm fairly sure I do) the incident happened over international waters not Chinese air space.  if it had been over Chinese airspace they would have used guns to bring the plane down.

2. I read the whole story in the link. And I basing this solely on the info you provided

 nowhere does it say that anybody thought the ship was rammed intentionally.  it says that the ship was suspected in a fatal collision, and excess crew members where removed from the ship so they would not interfere in the investigation, (or possibly destroy evidence or so the ship couldn't try to leave).    No one was arrested until they tried to leave the country.

all these are perfectly reasonable actions when a vehicle is suspected in a fatal collision. Impounding a vehicle so it can be examined is standard in fatal accidents, even when the driver is not suspected to be at fault.  securing evidence is reasonable and necessary for carrying out an investigation. and it's also reasonable to arrest someone for trying to leave the country while they are being investigated.

one more thing, it said the captain was being charged with manslaughter, so they apparently didn't think it was intentional. manslaughter is causing someone’s death through carelessness or neglect. murder is the charge when they think you did it on purpose.


Well, maybe it's another example of media bias towards certain nations or even simple lingual misunderstanding.

Here on TV noone said that the crew was arrested (?) to secure evidence. It was given just as if Canadians had to arrest Russian crew because "yankees" wanted their blood for something they didn't do :(

"Manslaughter" for me sounds like _intentional_ act, this word just sounds like that :( I don't know English good enough to understand such things :( Maybe Russian press suffered from the same lack of understanding...

As for the accident with Orion - I just want to understand why did American crew surrender to the "possible enemy", and brought the plane to Chinese airfield. Soviet crew should have tried to land on water or leave the plane, without even thinking about landing at hostile airfield. And if they did so - they should have been arrested for treason immediately after they returned home.

Life of millions of people depends on their behaviour under such circumstances.

I just try to point at the differences of understanding the concept of "duty".

Sorry.

Offline SOB

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New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2003, 03:00:32 PM »
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Even you're not stupid enough to believe this one, Boroda.  I'll chalk it up to a troll.

-- Todd/Leviathn


Yes he is.


SOB
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline miko2d

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New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2003, 03:01:41 PM »
Boroda: OTOH the US crew behaved like cowards.

 They did cause their country considerable embarrasment, having to negotiate for their release, etc. On the other hand ditching the plane in the ocean would have put the crew's lives in considerable danger, let alone lost a valuable craft.
 That a commander decided not to risk his people for diplomatic considerations (probably at the cost to his career) shows that he was not brainwashed.

Landing a top-secret aircraft loaded with scrambling and recon equipment at the Chinese airbase - I can't understand that.
 How do you know they did not throw out the sensitive equipment over the 40 minute flight? As far as I know, such equiplent is designed to be removed, destroyed and thrown overboard in seconds.

They were military, weren't they?...

 It does not mean the same here as in the Soviet Union. People are not expected to sacrifice themselves and their subordinates just to save a superior's face.


Smaller boat has an opportunity to turn/stop/accelerate, while a huge cargo ship is like a train...

 I looked at that and some other articles about the incident and they provide no basis for that opinion, so please give us a references. Otherwise I wil have to assume it's just a crap of your personal invention - and pretty dumb at that.

 How do you know that a boat was moving? Could it be it was standing still, as fishing boats often do - likely attached to a whole bunch of nets overboard? In which case it could have taken it considerable time to start moving, even if it chose to cut the nets - and it is the responcibility of a ship in motion to avoid collision with a stationary object in its path anyway.

 What if the "smaller boat" was moving - it was a trawler. It was likely pulling a few miles of nets behind it. Do you have any idea how "easy" it is to "turn/stop/accelerate" with a few miles of nets? I am totally ignorant on the topic but I would bet you dollars to doughnuts on common sense alone that marine laws must provide a right of way for a fishing ship pulling nets/lines in case of impending collision.


funkedup: I remember when my friend's wife (Chinese) tried to explain to me how the P-3 caused that collision.

 Not saying that P-3 caused the collision - most likely not. But given the risky and predictable behavior of the chinese pilot and technical aspects of the case, it certainly could - if they wanted to.
 I surely would be sorely tempted to, if I were the american pilot - thinking "This bastard keeps flying at very low relative speed few feet underneath my wing - and he is barely controllable at such low speed/high angle. Let me suddenly drop my wing by a few degrees and give him a tap..."

 People are known to occasionally give a sharp tap to the brake pedal whenever somebody is tailgating them at high speed. It may not be wise but considerations are the same - "my damage is likely to be minimal and certain to teach the bastard a lesson".

 miko
« Last Edit: July 11, 2003, 03:07:22 PM by miko2d »

Offline funkedup

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New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2003, 03:08:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Why do you Westerners always mention "communism" as if it means anything now in Russia?...


Well you are parroting the words of the communist Chinese government, and the words of Pravda, so I say if the shoe fits...

Offline Syzygyone

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New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2003, 03:19:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Hmm... I don't know, but it's possible that Chinese pliot had orders not to use his weapons against Orion. I hope you understand that there is some difference between shooting the recon plane and ramming it. In some cases "accident" is a more "safe" explaination then trying to persuade "international community" that they had (or thought they had) the right to shoot the enemy....

In USSR sometimes interceptor pilots got the orders to "push the invader out of Soviet airspace", without permission to use weapons.  AFAIK such things happened with Soviet Tu-95s too, when NATO fighters collided with them trying to make them leave the area around CV groups.


Does anyone else see the irony in our Russian friend's post?

Offline midnight Target

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New signs for Chinese Airforce pilots
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2003, 03:21:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Syzygyone
Does anyone else see the irony in our Russian friend's post?


While russian pilots just bravely used missles on airliners??

Offline Syzygyone

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Oh Gawd, I can't belive this!
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2003, 03:30:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
While russian pilots just bravely used missles on airliners??


Yes, MT< you are, r ..   ri,      ruh,.............



























        RIGHT!

Dang!