Author Topic: Music Industry Wins 871 Subpoenas Against Internet Users (Read 1827 times)

SaburoS · « **Reply #30 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:14:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ghosth
LOL, sounds like some socialist rhetoric. Let someone else do the hard work so you can have something for free?

No but it is a clear cut msg to the big corportations. Quit ripping us off, get with the times, give us what we what how we want or will will find it ourselves. [/QUOTE]

LOL, sounds like you just want to justify the theft of some "free" music.

Supply and demand does work wonders on the free market place.
Theft does not.

Bottom line is this:
If one gets caught from their downloading free music files, it will cost big bucks in legal fees just to get represented in court. If convicted imagine the huge Fine and possible jail sentence.

You still feel downloading free music files is worth that risk?

Sixpence · « **Reply #31 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:18:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SaburoS
LOL, I'm not rich, I don't actually like the RIAA types. But you're right. I don't like see a form of theft and excuse it for something else.
My cd collection numbers in the 300-400 range bought over 20 some odd years. Most of my cds I bought because of only 2-4 songs that I liked. It's seemingly always been like that even with the vinyl record albums. I rarely agree that a "Best of" is the best song compilation of a particular artist.
You want a good deal? The join the various music clubs. Get 12cds for the price of 3 (sometimes as low as 12 for one).
My free music collection? Zero. Never downloaded a copyrighted product without the copyright owner's permission. I never had Napster on my comp, nor do I haveKazaa, Kazaa lite, or any file sharing software on my comp.
I don't believe in a "because everyone's doing it means it is okay for me to do it" mentality, especially dealing with copyrighted materials.
What I find amusing is that the music pirates are now whining about the newer intrusive laws being passed that were designed to fight the piracy going on.
If you want to blame someone, blame yourselves. You know how the recording industry is yet you continue to download free music files (what is it up to now? 1600-3000 songs? More possibly?) without going out and actually buying the product. You should know they'd go after any potential major threat they see against their business.

If you know the answer to the following question, you'd know why the free downloading is wrong.

Why were copyright laws introduced in the first place?

Sounds like Mark Chmura to me

SaburoS · « **Reply #32 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:22:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sixpence
Did recording songs from the radio destroy the traditional music business? Did it prevent musicians from recording albums? File sharing destroying the music business, that's rich.

Actually most people didn't have the actual playlists the radio stations had. No way of knowing the exact time any particular song would be played making the recording of a particular song very time consuming. The quality of the recording was questionable as well.

Today we have a technology that allows a high quality, fast recording of practically any song you'd like. Only problem is that there is this pesky copyright law......

ccvi · « **Reply #33 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:24:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mickey1992
For those of you that think it's your God-given right to steal copyrighted music, how do you feel about people stealing (downloading) software?

The worlds best software is freely available as open source anyway.

Soon this will be the same with music...

Sixpence · « **Reply #34 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:25:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SaburoS
Actually most people didn't have the actual playlists the radio stations had. No way of knowing the exact time any particular song would be played making the recording of a particular song very time consuming. The quality of the recording was questionable as well.

Today we have a technology that allows a high quality, fast recording of practically any song you'd like. Only problem is that there is this pesky copyright law......

But the question was, did it ruin the music industry?

SaburoS · « **Reply #35 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:28:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sixpence
Sounds like Mark Chmura to me

Sixpence,

Why were copyright laws introduced in the first place?

Sixpence · « **Reply #36 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:29:38 PM »

you didnt answer the question

Mickey1992 · « **Reply #37 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:33:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sixpence
But the question was, did it ruin the music industry?

No, because recording a song off the radio costs more (in terms of man-hours) than buying the CD.

If I have to sit around listening to the radio for 4 hours waiting to make an analog to digital copy of a single song, I would be better off buying the CD in terms of time spent.

This all changed with digital file sharing, where I can get a reproduction of the entire CD off the internet in a matter of minutes. Comparing this to recording a single song off the radio is not a valid arguement in my opinion.

Octavius · « **Reply #38 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:33:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sixpence
1.)Long b4 there was any kind of money, people were playing music for each other, was it boring then? No, and, as a matter of fact, alot of people still do. There are ALOT of musicians out there who play for people just to share their music.We had a band in jax, fl. We would invite everyone over and have a big house party. There would be other musicians there too, we would play all day into the evening, it was a good time.(lol, although I would get sick of all the southern rock after awhile)

THANK you Sixpence... check this out.. try and read the whole thing before posting:

Quote

_Piracy Is Your Friend_
Since January, major labels have been meeting to develop a system of distributing music on the Internet to combat what they see as piracy.

Jaron Lanier, a virtual-reality pioneer and a musician,sees things differently. He is developing what he considers to be a more sensible plan for the emerging digital economy, and here is an excerpt from his manifesto, "Piracy Is Your Friend.":

Piracy is a phony issue that record labels are hyping to rip off artists. Piracy has always existed. That's why there's a mountain of blank cassettes in any big electronic store.

When someone decides to buy your music instead of copying it, they're doing it for a lot of reasons. Maybe they're ethical. Maybe they like the convenience of not having to hassle with the uncertainty of copying something -- Will it come out right? Is it done yet? Maybe it's their way of expressing good will to you.

But face it, if your music wasn't available for free in some form, no one would have a chance to hear it to decide to buy it in the first place. The old form of "free" music was radio (which is often taped by pirates) and MTV, but eventually the Internet is going to take over everything. There will still be TV and radio, but they'll be implemented digitally. Give it 10 years. When that happens, the idea of not giving away music for free will be exactly the same thing as never promoting music at all.

The real question should not be, "How can I keep my fans from hearing my music for free?" It should be, "How can I best make money from my fans?" Those are two different questions. Sure, you "lose" money to pirates. But you also lose money to a label that isn't doing anything for you.

It used to be that a label was needed to finance,manufacture, store, ship and market your music. That's how they earned their cut. The arrangement made sense. If the music business wasn't shrinking before our eyes, it would still make sense.

But in the digital era, it costs nothing to ship your music over the Internet to a fan. So the biggest reason for labels just went away.

As for financing, well, if advances were stacked up against finance deals in other industries, they'd look a lot like usury -- except that they aren't even loans: once they'repaid back, the label still owns the master. There is simply no worse conceivable form of financing. We can do better if we take charge of our own careers.

But what about marketing? Can labels still do that? Of course they can, for a few big acts. But once you are established, your own Web site connects with your fan base better than the label can.

Even if you are a huge artist, think whether in the course of your whole career, not just the next couple of years, you lose more money to pirates or to labels who will be taking most of your money for no reason at all?

When somebody in a dorm room buys thousands of dollars' worth of gear and stays up all night hacking MP3's just to get "free" music, that's what you call an opportunity, not a problem. You have found yourself a new generation of fanatics. The only problem is that computer companies are making the money right now instead of musicians.

Labels can't prevent piracy. No one can. I know computers as well as anyone on the planet, and I promise you, kids will break whatever copy protection scheme the labels come up with. And the industry knows it.

In fact, the easier it is to copy music, the less of a threat piracy will become. When piracy gets easier, professional pirates have less to offer. The only pirates left will be fans.

And there are lots of ways to make money from fans.

The reason the Recording Industry Association ofAmerica and the labels are pushing anti-piracy laws and technologies has nothing to do with preventing piracy. They're doing it so that they can control the new digital music channels.

To keep anyone else, like you, from sharing the power.

They're doing it to rip you off. Period.

You can make more money in the new era of "free" digital music. But only if you break free of label mind control.

- Jaron Lanier

[/size]

Mickey1992 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:35:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ccvi
The worlds best software is freely available as open source anyway.

Soon this will be the same with music...

Who is going to pay the $200,000 it costs to record/produce the average gold-selling CD when it is "open source" and the artist isn't making any money off of it?

Wlfgng · « **Reply #40 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:39:52 PM »

Quote

Long b4 there was any kind of money, people were playing music for each other, was it boring then? No, and, as a matter of fact, alot of people still do. There are ALOT of musicians out there who play for people just to share their music.We had a band in jax, fl. We would invite everyone over and have a big house party. There would be other musicians there too, we would play all day into the evening, it was a good time.(

we still do that.
every tuesday night at a local home-grown studio.
In fact, it's been a regular thing for 15+ years and
some great players show up from time to time..
BIG time players without attitudes.. it's awesome
and I'm glad to see this kind of thing still exists.

Sixpence · « **Reply #41 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:40:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mickey1992
No, because recording a song off the radio costs more (in terms of man-hours) than buying the CD.

If I have to sit around listening to the radio for 4 hours waiting to make an analog to digital copy of a single song, I would be better off buying the CD in terms of time spent.

This all changed with digital file sharing, where I can get a reproduction of the entire CD off the internet in a matter of minutes. Comparing this to recording a single song off the radio is not a valid arguement in my opinion.

I used to leave my recorder on, then flip the tape and do the same thing. I would listen to it later and tape the songs I wanted to keep. I didn't have to sit around anywhere. Oh yeah, I slaved to do that.

Cost more in terms of man hours,lol, that's rich. The answer was no, ty.

Mickey1992 · « **Reply #42 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:46:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Octavius
And there are lots of ways to make money from fans.

You can make more money in the new era of "free" digital music. But only if you break free of label mind control.

He makes a good argument for why record labels may become extinct, but he doesn't explain how a musician that can't sell his/her music is going to keep from becoming a part-time musician.

Fishu · « **Reply #43 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:46:09 PM »

SaburoS,

You do have a short memory..

"(what is it up to now? 1600-3000 songs? More possibly?)

Quite far.
I don't have a single pay songs and I don't even have that many songs of other kind in total, not even a hundred.

"I don't believe in a "because everyone's doing it means it is okay for me to do it" mentality"

Neither do I, I'm not the steretype kind of a fella, hardly ever been.
You don't need an excuse for yourself to do it, it's matter of money and life, thats the way how it is.. it is the fact.

If your life is good, so be it, but not everyone is as fortunate as you sound to be.
You just refuse to see the reality behind some people and stick on the excuses etc.

"I never had Napster on my comp, nor do I haveKazaa, Kazaa lite, or any file sharing software on my comp."

You don't exactly need a file sharing software....
Theres things like FTP, WWW, IRC.... and so on.
Besides, there are other uses for file sharing softwares.

Like I do have an FTP server program to be used between my computers and share files to friends in case the IRC or WWW isn't suitable.
Oh... and there are alot of files to share that are not illegal!

But I haven't used any actual P2P software and I've kept distance to napster and kazaa.

Tell you what, you sound like more of a casual computer user..

It is only too bad there isn't RIAA kind of organization to fight against theft of private property with an equal enthusiasm and resources, like there is RIAA to fight for the copyrights of music producers (erhm.. excuse me, publishers!)
That would really cut down some ACTUAL crimes which causes heavy losses and which are usually irreplaceable in value for the owner, even if the insurance company would pay for most of the lost property. (like how is insurance companys money going to help you, if your weeks or months of work is stolen, which you need in your job?)

Forgive me, I already forgot the music piracy requires far more resources due to being more important than the irreplaceable material which is gone for good once someone "downloads it" aka takes it away.

Mickey1992 · « **Reply #44 on:** July 23, 2003, 01:55:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sixpence
I used to leave my recorder on, then flip the tape and do the same thing. I would listen to it later and tape the songs I wanted to keep. I didn't have to sit around anywhere. Oh yeah, I slaved to do that.

Cost more in terms of man hours,lol, that's rich. The answer was no, ty.

Tape recorders didn't destroy the music industry because as you have shown, piracy involved at least some work and a little but of effort. Piracy today takes a mouse click and a couple of seconds. It's easy.

Quote

Originally posted by Fishu
it's matter of money and life, thats the way how it is.. it is the fact. If your life is good, so be it, but not everyone is as fortunate as you sound to be.

So Fishu, if you did not have the money to afford a car, it would justify stealing one?