petition: full logs for scenarios - vote here

[ccvi]

the logs posted after scenarios aren't the most full and complete logs that are created during an event.

do you want HTC to post the full logs after a scenario?

post here if you do.

[hazed-]

Im not sure HTC actually hosts the stats pages you use to veiw the scenario details. I know when i was CM they were in the midst of changing things so it might be different now.

Full logs if displayed well are well worth showing i think. The raw logs are a little sterile and a bit too busy to be enjoyable to veiw. With a nice layout and presentation I think plently of people would like to see them.

you get my vote

[Gremlin]

CCVI,

The full logs that an event generates are pretty much meaningless unless they are processed and formatted.  The logs which my site provides contains all there is to be seen in the logs.  The only detail that i dont provide is the 'bullet hit'.  Basically every single bullet that every single player connects with is recorded.  Obviously this info would make the published logs far too lenghty and unweildy.  If you have some desire to see this info for a particular event then i'd be happy to dig it out for you.  Some other minor stuff like a person changing field is also there.

So basically all that you see is all there is to be seen.  Was there something specific you were looking for?

[ccvi]

Bullet hits and field changes in m chronological order might be boring for you. For me they aren't.

If they're boring as you say, bandwidth to make them available wont matter, because noone would download them if they're boring enough - so this is not a reason not to make them available. If they're not boring players would actually be interested in them - this would in fact be a real reason to find a way to overcome the bandwidth problem to make them available.

Either way, there seems to be no reason for not publishing them.

[Gremlin]

CCVI,

Your missing my point, band width is not the problem.  Its this simple.

What do you think mist people want to see.

CCVI
Departed from field 5 in plane Y
Shot Down Z
Landed at field #XX

or

CCVI
changed field from a1 - a4
changed field from a4 - a5
Departed from field 5 in plane Y
Bullet hit on player X
Bullet hit on player X
Bullet hit on player X
Bullet hit on player X
Bullet hit on player X
Bullet hit on player X
(continue 32 more times)
Shot Down Z
(another zillion bullet hits)
Landed at field #XX

Im afraid the former is all 99% of peeps wish to see.  Like I said I can help you if you need some specific information for a specific event, but unless a large number of players tell us they would like to see the later I'm afraid they are gonna stay as they are:(

[Flossy]

Besides, it's HTC that have ruled that only CMs have access to the raw logs.  We have to respect their wishes.  

[ccvi]

Originally posted by Gremlin
Your missing my point, band width is not the problem.  Its this simple.

Flossy said bandwidth was the problem last time I asked.

She also stated that she was reading the logs with excel. I didn't notice anything strange back then, though of course I was laughing about using excel to analyse data. Last week it suddenly came to my mind that there's a big flaw. If it's big excel can't load it. So I asked again (other threat).

What do you think mist people want to see.

CCVI
Departed from field 5 in plane Y
Shot Down Z
Landed at field #XX

I don't know about others, but I usually feel pretty bored reading that kind of logs.

CCVI
changed field from a1 - a4
changed field from a4 - a5
Departed from field 5 in plane Y
Bullet hit on player X
Bullet hit on player X
Bullet hit on player X
Bullet hit on player X
Bullet hit on player X
Bullet hit on player X
(continue 32 more times)
Shot Down Z
(another zillion bullet hits)
Landed at field #XX

The chronological and detailed logs show many interesting things. What kind of planes were landed with many holes in them, when did the biggest fights take place, did cannons or guns prove more reliable, etc. Not everything might be easily visible in the raw data, but after a little processing it will.

Im afraid the former is all 99% of peeps wish to see.  Like I said I can help you if you need some specific information for a specific event, but unless a large number of players tell us they would like to see the later I'm afraid they are gonna stay as they are:(

I tried to ask many players if they wanted to. HTC doesn't seem to like the idea to ask them about it, or this threat wouldn't have moved from the general forum to this deserted place. Maybe I'm doing them wrong and it was just moved in the big 20-threads-move-rush yesterday.

Originally posted by Flossy
Besides, it's HTC that have ruled that only CMs have access to the raw logs.  We have to respect their wishes.  

Actually, I already guessed that. Read my first post in this thread.

The question that appeared now is why did you you lie the last times I asked? (this might sound like a harsh question, but I'm no native speaker and not really able to express it in a softer way). Why is gremlin trying to make excuses about noone wanting to see them anyway?

Did HTC also decided that you're not supposed to let anyone know that it was their decision to not publish raw logs? Thanks for braking that rule, I feel pity for you should you get punished for doing so. If it's HTC's decision it's just the way it is. There isn't any explaining to to, not for you at least. Thanks for jumping in the line of fire though.

[Flossy]

Originally posted by ccvi
Flossy said bandwidth was the problem last time I asked.

I have never mentioned the word 'bandwith' as far as I can remember.... I did say supplying a complete log for an entire event would mean an extremely large file, and I really didn't see the need for it.

She also stated that she was reading the logs with excel.

I did not claim to have read the file with excel - what I have done in the past is run a report of the raw logs and have the results produced in a comma delimited format suitable for importing into a spreadsheet - this of course can only be done with fairly limited amounts of data, and I would not even attempt to try the full logs!

The chronological and detailed logs show many interesting things. What kind of planes were landed with many holes in them, when did the biggest fights take place, did cannons or guns prove more reliable, etc. Not everything might be easily visible in the raw data, but after a little processing it will.

Actually, I think your idea of the information in the raw logs is much more detailed than they actually are - for instance there is nothing to say whether cannons or machine guns are used.... "bad guy damage" shows who you hit and how many bullets hit for each line of the logs, but not what type.

Actually, I already guessed that. Read my first post in this thread.

The question that appeared now is why did you you lie the last times I asked? (this might sound like a harsh question, but I'm no native speaker and not really able to express it in a softer way). Why is gremlin trying to make excuses about noone wanting to see them anyway?

I have never lied to you and would never dream of lieing to anybody here.  All I have done is stated facts, as I understand them.  I could be wrong, in which case you are probably better contacting HTC direct and asking why you can't have access to the full logs ( support@hitechcreations.com ).

Gremlin is not making excuses.  You are the only person who has demanded to know all the final detail in the raw logs.  As Gremlin said, most people are simply interested in who they killed or what targets they bombed successfully.  Not many people would be interested in every single bullet-hit, especially if they didn't result in a Kill.

I could probably supply any lines with your name in from any log if you wanted, but not for everyone listed in a log.  

[Gremlin]

Originally posted by ccvi
She also stated that she was reading the logs with excel. I didn't notice anything strange back then, though of course I was laughing about using excel to analyse data. Last week it suddenly came to my mind that there's a big flaw. If it's big excel can't load it. So I asked again (other threat).

Just FYI excel can take 65536 lines, I have never seen a log file bigger than that.  However although we have used many tools to process logs, now we have a web tool which I developed on behalf of the CM team, thus excel or any other tool are no longer required.

Originally posted by ccvi
The question that appeared now is why did you you lie the last times I asked? (this might sound like a harsh question, but I'm no native speaker and not really able to express it in a softer way). Why is gremlin trying to make excuses about noone wanting to see them anyway?

You are way out of line here, native speaker or not, there is no 'softer' way to use the word 'lie'.  Let me be very clear about 2 things.  Flossy is one of the most respected members of this community, she is always very helpful, polite and honest in her dealings with other players, I take grave exception to your suggestion that she has been anything other than honest with you.  Secondly, I do not need to make any 'excuses'.  I am simply stating that the logs are as they are because thats the way people want them.  Even when your thread was in the incorrect forum, I didnt notice a rush of posts supporting your suggestion.  You simply proved that you are pretty much the only one who wants to see these.

Let me also be very clear on this point.  The logs will remain as they are unless I am told otherwise by HTC or by Flossy.

[Skuzzy]

ccvi, the raw logs will not be made available.

I moved this post to the correct forum for what might had been a civil discussion had you not taken to abusing other players.