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Author Topic: German Attack  (Read 1331 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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German Attack
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2003, 04:56:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX
I always under the impression that torque launched you and hp gave you lower e.t.'s and higher mph?


But "loosing steam" that Saur replied to means you will still get the speed, just takes time to get up there because of less torque, and with only 200 ponies like this car...HP is indeed needed.
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Offline Saurdaukar

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German Attack
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2003, 05:01:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX
I always under the impression that torque launched you and hp gave you lower e.t.'s and higher mph?


That can be argued, but the inverse can also be argued.

The HP vs. TQ debate takes place each and every single day between American V8 guys and Jap import guys on their respective forums.

Im not a physics guy, so I wont pretend to be able to explain it technically, but at speeds under 120-ish MPH, torque is less important that it is at speeds over 120MPH.

If youve ever driven a small displacement, high HP, low TQ Jap car (Integra, RSX TS, or something along those lines, past the 120MPH zone back to back with say... an M5 or a Z06, the difference would be glaring.

Once past that speed threshold, the Integra/RSX/etc will hit a brick wall due to the combination of drag and lack of torque and the M5 or Z06 will plow through it and continue to twist the needle on the speedometer - despite both the BMW and Corvette being bigger, heavier, and producing more drag (mostly due to frontal area).

Im not sure if this 'feel' would even be experienced on a 1/4 mile strip unless you were in a pro/am class of some sort and trapping over 130-140MPH.

Someone clarify if Ive blown a gasket - Im not the greatest at explaining things sometimes.
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Offline DiabloTX

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German Attack
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2003, 05:08:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
If youve ever driven a small displacement, high HP, low TQ Jap car....


God no, Sauer, bite your friggin' tongue!!  Big blocks only!!!
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"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline MrCoffee

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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2003, 05:10:50 PM »
In laymans terms, torque is essentially when the engne gives you best pull acceleration. Its the point  along the RPM band where the engine provides the most acceleration and is the most efficient in terms of power output/RPM. Max HP comes above max torque in the RPM and is the product of increased power through increased RPM though with less torque. After peek torque, your engine still produces more power but loses the net value due to friction and heat. At max HP, your engine balances out at 50% total power  loss to friction and heat and 50% total power left that is usable at the flywheel.

So torque = good acceleration/pull.
HP = top speed, specially the later fractions of it.

Anyone notice the front shock arrangment protruding from the front hood.

thumbs up on babe :D
« Last Edit: July 30, 2003, 05:22:19 PM by MrCoffee »
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Offline BlkKnit

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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2003, 05:13:09 PM »
car?  what car?:p
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Offline DiabloTX

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« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2003, 05:13:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrCoffee


So torque = good acceleration/pull.
HP = top speed, specially the later fractions of it.

Anyone notice the front shock arrangment protruding from the front hood.



That's what I always thought.  And nice catch on the front suspension layout.  Open wheel suspension on a street car.  Niiiiiiiiice!!!! :)
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"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2003, 05:17:33 PM »
Someone shoot me, I've been eyeing the upcoming 2004 Ford Cobra SVT with 390 HP generated from a turbo, with 450+ lbs. of torque...:D (May have to repaint my Roundel on the garage wall!)
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Offline DiabloTX

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« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2003, 05:18:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Someone shoot me, I've been eyeing the upcoming 2004 Ford Cobra SVT with 390 HP generated from a turbo, with 450+ lbs. of torque...:D (May have to repaint my Roundel on the garage wall!)


Ok, what'll it be?  .38 or .44 cal.?
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"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline DiabloTX

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« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2003, 06:20:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Its a Fixed Or Repaired Daily. You'd better carpet your mechanics garage instead. ;)


GScholz I couldn't agree with you more here buddy, !!!!
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"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline Otto

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« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2003, 07:10:30 PM »
Boy!  I don't know...  A little bit of snow and you'd be in real trouble.
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Offline funkedup

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« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2003, 11:16:38 PM »
All other things being equal, if two cars are going the same speed, the one whose engine is producing more power will have greater acceleration.

The torque figures in the magazines are measured at the crankshaft.  The actual torque exerted on the wheels, and more importantly the thrust transmitted by the wheels to the ground, is as much a function of gearing and wheel diameter as it is a function of crankshaft torque.

You can multiply torque as much as you want by using large gear ratios and/or small diameter wheels.

Power only gets slightly reduced by large gear ratios.

Power will always trump torque if you get the gearing right.

That'a a big "if" though.  And that's why F-1 cars have 7 speed gearboxes and why we'll all be driving cars with CVT's in 15 years.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2003, 11:22:48 PM by funkedup »
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Offline MrCoffee

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« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2003, 01:36:30 AM »
Heres a simple way to consider torque vs HP. It would be strange to rate an engines power output based on its available torque since that value would max out well below its usable RPMs. So an enegry rating in HP is given.

BTW: did some searching on the car and come up with these links.

http://www.k1-styling.sk/default2.htm

http://evteam.gambitdesign.com/gallery/attack_build

Now I want one but cant afford it yet :D I think it costs around 18,000 US dollars for the the kit (converted from Euro to US). Correct me if Im wrong.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2003, 01:44:51 AM by MrCoffee »
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Offline swoopy

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« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2003, 08:10:10 AM »
mm looks like a copy of the vx220 to me, prefer that tho
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Vosnik
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Offline gatso

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« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2003, 08:13:57 AM »
Exactly what I thought swoopy. Elise/VX220 clone with slightly more attitude in the styling.

Pics a bit big so linked it rather than img tagged it.

http://www.lotuscars.co.uk/media/Elise_rendered_front.jpg

Gatso
« Last Edit: July 31, 2003, 08:23:22 AM by gatso »
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Offline swoopy

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« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2003, 08:26:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar


Once past that speed threshold, the Integra/RSX/etc will hit a brick wall due to the combination of drag and lack of torque and the M5 or Z06 will plow through it and continue to twist the needle on the speedometer - despite both the BMW and Corvette being bigger, heavier, and producing more drag (mostly due to frontal area).


mm No
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Vosnik
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