Targetware Open BETA

[baders]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Ugh, just did some dinking around in TK. My first reaction was "This is what happens when someone "thinks" they can be HTC and start a sim from scratch.

Deleted.

Hehe, a quote comes to mind; "None are so blind as those that WILL not see"

I'm sure you are comfortable in your box Rip, but theres much more to be seen & experienced out of it. Were actually having a little giggle at these type of comments over at TR.

We do however welcome all & sundry to give TR a go. You will find assistance if needed, & it will be , as TR is a very challenging sim indeed & below the Open Beta surface lies a whole world of sim features that in my opinion, are far better than any other currently available.

Now this is not a put down for AH, HTC must be doing something right to attract the numbers they have & I certainly doff my hat to the AH crew.

The vibe at TR is great, kinda like the early WB days. Many people, like Rip, have a go for 5 minutes & declare it too hard/unplayable/difficult FM etc etc. They then receive some advice by our dev Team & beta testers, telling to look deeper into the sim. Its wonderful to witness the gradual understanding dawning for these people. Like the veil is lifted

Anyways Rip, i'm putting my services forward to you to assist you in any fashion with TR. You only have to ask mate !!

[Kweassa]

I don't know.. feels kind of like CFS2, but I feel optimistic about it. In any case, more realism is always welcome for me - all the tedious switches and stuff would mean it more time invested to learn proper control of them, and in that case, I think we could say we really "learn the plane".

 Learning different procedures was a fun task in CFS2(probably the only fun part, in my opinion), and it is no doubt that if you like that kind of tedious, fun, small immersion factors.. you'd soon come to like Rabaul.

 The FM does feel a bit funky - in my case, the rudder input was pretty wild. Also, as Batz points out, the consequences of badly trimmed surfaces is downright outrageous. I actually had very much trouble trying to throw the stick forward to keep level flight, since probably like everyone else, I also confused the "up" and "down" elevator trim. I tried to compare the F4U-1 of AH and TR, but quickly gave up, because I couldn't figure out how to manage the F4U-1 properly. Trying different mixture, blower, boost settings and stuff..(anyone got a Hog pilot's manual?? Sheesh!)

 However, considering it is a game made of 'loose' structuring in development, I think it has potential. Terrains and effects can always be upgraded. The FM can be cleaned out a bit, and the settings can be finalized and tidily.

 For an "open Beta", it isn't really that impressive.. maybe "open Alpha" would be more appropriate, but as I said, again, I think it's got potential.

 ...


 I especially like the engine management and stuff.
 
 I think the future tasks for game programmers of all titles, WB, AH, TargetW, WW2OL etc etc.. would be to figure out a good idea to implement easy access to realistic factors, without making it too gamey.

 Compared to the procedures in TR or CFS, even FB engine management is a joke. But since we don't have any of realistic feedback the pilots would feel when they push, pull, trigger switches and levers.. the vibration of the plane... different sound pitch and etc..  obviously the "look down the dashboard" is not gonna work. However, putting in generic instruments like AH is effective, but takes out a lot in immersion.

 I guess we'll just have to wait for new innovative methods of depicting realistic management, without having to "Zoom in.... move mouse...stare at instrument....try to make out what the black/white smudge is pointing at...." process.  

[Wanker]

Many people, like Rip, have a go for 5 minutes & declare it too hard/unplayable/difficult FM etc etc. They then receive some advice by our dev Team & beta testers, telling to look deeper into the sim. Its wonderful to witness the gradual understanding dawning for these people. Like the veil is lifted.

Well said, baders. This is exactly what is happening to me. At first glance, I thought that the controls setup was way too complicated and arcane. But then I actually sat down last night without my young son climbing all over me, in silence, and read Jedi's very instructive joystick setup tretise found here: http://web.targetrabaul.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=433

Anyway, walking through that, and using the clearly written setup documentation by targetware, I'm begining to be won over by the design of the TWconfig utility. I don't have my Cougar and CH Pro Pedals set up completely correctly yet(too much yaw), but I'm getting there.

I especially enjoy the fact that I can so easily map the RPM and pitch controls to my two rotary dials on the Cougar. Believe it or not, I have flown flight sims for over 13 years, and online sims since 1996, but I *still* don't know how to properly use the propeller pitch and RPM setting. But that's because I never *had* to learn. Now I do, and I'm enjoying the extra complexity of the engine management. I like that it's no longer "Start engine and then firewall it". Well done!

I do wish there was an "Auto trim" assist, though, as I was experiencing some massive "Cougar arm" as I tried to hold my Rufe steady as I attempted to trim her out. Got it mostly in trim, but haven't been able to fly "hands off" yet.

You'll laugh at this, but I think a good case can be argued that there should be some auto trim built into the game, if for no other reason than to allow us 30 seconds to run to the fridge to grab another beer. Or, on a more serious note, what about the bomber pilots who go on an hour-long mission. Surely they will not be expected to fly hands on that entire time?

That being said, the cockpits are wonderful, and I've had no problems taking off, once I really read the manual and set everything up correctly. I like the touch of having the canopy hood slaved to the gear.

Like everyone else, I'm still trying to get a handle on the FM, and what I think about it. But for right now, my only wish is for an auto-trim feature.

Big salute to you and the rest of Targetware. I think you've got a winner here.

[muckmaw]

Take this with a grain of salt. I've played for 1 hour so far, and I realize the game is in beta.

My thoughts.

Downloaded in 7 mins. (cable)
Installed and ran without incident.
Smooth run..no lock-ups
Engine management looks good.
Start-up procedure is a fun change of pace
Crash damage, while interesting is still "gamey"
Cockpit gauges are unreadible from my vantage.
Terrain graphics are deplorable at this stage (may need to adjust settings)
Overall graphics were on par with current AH which is not good
FM seems alright. (Never flew a real P-40 so who knows)
External view on fighters, if in the online sim, will be too gamey
Throttle commands don't seem to work (Stick or keyboard)
Wheel brakes..only one wheel brakes, probably my fault.
Flight is challenging and interesting
Landings and take offs require real effort
No autopilot is a nice feature.

Bottom line, this is open beta, and can no compete with AH at this time. The game has potential, but I would venture to guess the final release is still quite some time off.

I will be watching this game, more for the Korea aspect than any other.  It does not have enough, and probably wont have enough WWII planes to compete with AH.

on 1-10, 1 being Star Wars Galaxies and 10 being a game I would subscribe to, I would give this a 5-6 considering it's potential.

[Wanker]

Muck, I felt exactly the same way you do, until I dug a little deeper, and spent more time understanding how the controls are set up via the config utility. Did you do that yet?

I can vouch that the throttle does work. In fact, I haven't found any actual bugs with regard to joystick setup yet. Setting up my Cougar was actually just as easy to do in TR as it was in AH, except that the FM is different, so it's taking me a while longer to find a setup that feels good. And I even get to use my rotary keys on the Cougar for engine management!

[muckmaw]

banana-

Believe it or not, I have no idea how to set up my stick. I bought it, "Borrowed" Revvin's AH profile, and never looked back.

I only tested it out for an hour, as game time is at a premium these days and was in a hurry to get shot down in AH.

I'll mess with it some more tonight.

How do you feel about the graphics, gauges, etc?

[WestyAH]

Thanks for the link banana. Will print and try it out.  I actually managed to "fly" a KI-45 last night. Into the ground it went much smoother than my previous test flights!  My throttle worked butmy stick did not. I  could not find an ingame calibrator so a  check of the Windows app showed it was way out of calibration. AH let's me calibrate the stick in-game so I'd forgotten all about calibrating my gear in windows.

[Wanker]

How do you feel about the graphics, gauges, etc?

Well, I've got the graphics maxed out, running at 1600x1200x32@85 hrz, 4x AA and 8x AF. With my system, I'm getting between low 20's fps when sitting on the ground at an airfield, to 85fps when flying with not much around.

I think the airplane graphics are on a par, or even better than  what AH has now, and will soon be less than AH2's graphics, depending on how they turn out.

But the cockpits are fabulous! Much more detailed than AH's. However, having to look down to see the guages is disappointing. For playability reasons, I wish they would've went with an ahistorical guage setup.

I could not find an ingame calibrator so a check of the Windows app showed it was way out of calibration. AH let's me calibrate the stick in-game so I'd forgotten all about calibrating my gear in windows.

Westy, inside the game, on the main menu, go to the "Settings" tab, and then the "calibration" tab. Follow the instructions, and you'll be ready to roll!

[Zanth]

Still waiting on the download to finish.  I expect it to have some bugs (open beta and all) I remember Aces high wasn't no bed of roses when it first came out in open beta either.  Competition is good, will keep HTC on their toes and spur more development.

[baders]

Great questions guys, i'll attempt to answer what I can.

1)

Cockpit gauges are unreadible from my vantage.
Terrain graphics are deplorable at this stage (may need to adjust settings)
Overall graphics were on par with current AH which is not good

You definitely need to play with "video settings". I rate this game on par with WBIII atm with a far better terrain than that game. Look in the Targetware root folder to find the exe for the TW Config app.

2) Crash damage, while interesting is still "gamey"

Definitely because its beta. These things & far more in the pipeline.

3) External view on fighters, if in the online sim, will be too gamey

Same again External wont be there past Open Beta. (On the official server at least).

4) Throttle commands don't seem to work (Stick or keyboard)

Not quite sure about that one. Your throttle axis not working aty all ?? Again, use TW Config to assign axes etc & check what is assigned where.

5) Wheel brakes..only one wheel brakes, probably my fault.

At the moment, wheelbrakes operate as a toggle, either on or off. I imagine this too will be changed maybe to a system like WBIII. (Progressive braking via joystick).

6) No autopilot is a nice feature.

There will be a "wings level" type auto pilot sooner rather than later. For the reasons banana stated above.

7) However, having to look down to see the guages is disappointing. (banana)

You can actually make your own views within TW Config. The possibilities are endless. Maybe not as easy as AH view setups, but still functional.

Hope this helps to answer some questions guys

[Ack-Ack]

What I want to know is when TR will have the most feared plane ever to fly in the Pacific, the P-38?


ack-ack

[baders]

Very, very soon Along with F6F & Ki61.

[Swoop]

No autopilot?

Aw man sod that.  If I can't go outside for a smoke on climbout this means either I gotta quit smoking or the girlfriend has gotta go so I can smoke in the house again.

Nah, think I'll just stick with AH for a while longer.

[Maniac]

Aw man sod that. If I can't go outside for a smoke on climbout this means either I gotta quit smoking or the girlfriend has gotta go so I can smoke in the house again.

And its hard to roll one with one hand

[Vermillion]

But Swoop... AH doesn't have the F-86F, the MiG15, the F9F, etc.    I guess I'm just generally burned out with WWII ACM.  Not getting rid of AH, just looking for a little more out there to go with it.

But I agree with the need for the typical AH/WB's autopilot.  Auto level, auto climb, auto speed.