Author Topic: What is a 64bit processor?  (Read 651 times)

Offline WhiteHawk

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1815
What is a 64bit processor?
« on: August 19, 2003, 09:01:59 AM »
AMD announces it has developed a 64bit processor?  
Anybody know how if this is a chp worth waiting for?

Offline Monty405

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 234
      • http://www3.sympatico.ca/carol.haynes/
What is a 64bit processor?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2003, 09:45:54 AM »
no one really knows at this point i believe. hopefully itll slash prices on athlon xp's

Offline jonnyb

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 593
What is a 64bit processor?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2003, 09:54:57 AM »
The Opteron is targeted towards Servers and Workstations.  It is a 64-bit chip as opposed to the 32-bit architecture of the current offerings.  What it offers the professional markets is the opportunity to theoretically double the computing power of current workstations.  What it offers the home user is yet to be discovered.

The reason for this is that there are no Opteron motherboards that support AGP.  nVidia is coming out with nForce3 which will have an AGP slot, however, it hasn't arrived yet.

So, in short, if you are a gamer, or regular home user, the Opteron doesn't make sense.  On the other hand, if you are running an application server that renders video, speaks to databases, and compiles servlets, then this chip definitely makes sense for you.

Offline bockko

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 585
      • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blackoutboys/
What is a 64bit processor?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2003, 01:29:37 PM »
a bit more info: p4's and athlons are 32 bit processors, ie they can input and output in 32 bit chuncks (32 bit word). The 64 bit word is twice as big, theoretically giving you double the bandwidth. I wouldn't hold up an upgrade to get a 64 bit pipeline, in fact there will most likely be compatibility issues for a while after the chip's release. Your best bet is to get a fast processor and good motherboard and use a good p4 or top of the line amd (get intel, helps my bonus ;) ) processor. I just upgraded a system to a 2.5g p4 with the 800 mhz bus/dual ddr; smokes the game, so something above 2 gig and you will be quite happy.

Offline WhiteHawk

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1815
What is a 64bit processor?
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2003, 02:23:36 PM »
Hmmm..the writeup on the AMD 64bit chip seemed to be targeting the gaming community, they just werent specific whowould benifit.

tnxz

Offline jonnyb

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 593
What is a 64bit processor?
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2003, 09:49:43 PM »
Well, Asus released their nforce3-based board the SKN8.  The board costs around $225.  Factor in the cost of the Opteron (Model 140 is about $275) and some new PC2700 memory (the board supports up to 8 Gigs of registered memory) and you're talking close to 650 bucks.

Too new, and just not worth it for anybody but the "gotta have it right now and have the fastest box on the block and money really means nothing" types.

Offline acetnt-2nd

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 30
AMD CHips
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2003, 01:18:02 PM »
The opteron is designed for servers. WHat you are talking about is the Athlon 64 which is supposed to be a hell of a processer. It does both 64bit and 32bit lenght instructions. 64 bit software is not readily available right now (MS is due to release a 64bit op system soon) but this processor is supposed to do extremely well at 32bit apps also. But having said that -- the proof is in the pudding as they say ---- so only when it comes out will we know the true story.

I am actually waiting on it for an upgrade


Acetnt

Offline qts

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 782
      • None yet
What is a 64bit processor?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2003, 03:29:37 AM »
I expect to be purchasing an AMD64-based computer next year. XP-A64 is a pre-requisite, though.

As soon as XP-A64 comes out, I expect that a lot of my users will want 64 bit computers for the memory capacity and the processing power. I have users who have 2+ GB and want more to run their engineering modelling software better.

Offline Siaf__csf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2213
What is a 64bit processor?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2003, 03:49:00 AM »
Quote
The reason for this is that there are no Opteron motherboards that support AGP. nVidia is coming out with nForce3 which will have an AGP slot, however, it hasn't arrived yet.


You're wrong, there are motherboards for Opteron with an AGP slot.

You can even buy one ready http://www.pcfx.cc/

Offline bloom25

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1675
What is a 64bit processor?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2003, 11:44:01 AM »
Here's some benchmarks of the model 246 (2 GHz Opteron) and the 246 overclocked to 2.2 GHz.  Extremetech also did a review, but only used the 1.4 GHz Model 242 with PC2100 memory.  

(Remember that since the Athlon 64 will not require ECC memory and will support PC3200 DDR it will probably be even faster for gaming.)

http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?ArticleID=1329

Offline Nilsen

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18108
What is a 64bit processor?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2003, 07:20:35 PM »
another thing...

64bit processors can use up to 16 hextabytes of ram or something and 32 bit can only utilize 8gb + it does twice as many tasks at the same time as a 32bit can.

All theoretical and i think it needs 64bit optimised operating system

me thinks...

got it from ibm/apple's paper on their new G5

Offline bloom25

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1675
What is a 64bit processor?
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2003, 12:07:07 AM »
Unfortunately it's just not that simple.  32 bit addressing in the PC allows addressing up to just over 4 Gigabytes of RAM (note that RAM can also include hard drive space) at the same time, however that's not the end of the story.  x86 processors also use a technique called segmentation which allows multiple chunks (16383 to be exact) of 4 GB each to be accessed.  That theoretically allows any modern x86 processor to address up to a total of 64 Terabytes.  (x86 processors from the Pentium up also support what is known as PAE, or paging address extension, which allows them to use 36 bit addressing (64 GB chunks), but they take a large performance hit when doing so.)

Where the advantage of a 64 bit processor comes into play is that they would be capable of accessing more than 4 GB at the same time.  This can deliver performance advantages to applications that work with very large amounts of data.  A 64 bit processor is also capable of performing operations on 64 bits of data at a time, which (neglecting a LOT of things) allows them to do twice the "work" in the same amount of time for a similar 32 bit processor running at the same clockspeed.  (When I say "neglecting a LOT of things" that means not taking into account architectural differences between CPUs, memory bandwidth, required precision,SIMD instructions, etc, etc.)

AMD's new Athlon 64, Athlon 64 FX, and Opteron have both 32 bit and 64 bit modes.  In 64 bit mode they can access more than 4 GB of memory at the same time, but not the theoretical 2^64 (18446744073709551616) bytes.  I believe AMD implemented support for up to 64 GB of physical RAM.  

Along with the change to 64 bit support, AMD has also added the following compared to the current Athlon XPs:

On die memory controller - basically this greatly reduces the amount of time the processor has to wait before receiving data from RAM.  This is the primary improvement over the Athlon XP, and it is a big one.  If you are familiar with what is called a "front side bus" (FSB) on current processors, which is the speed at which they communicate with their memory controller consider that the new AMD CPUs will have a front side bus frequency that is proportional to their CPU clockspeed.  (Which means that faster CPUs have a correspondingly faster FSB.  This will allow the new AMD CPUs to scale in performance faster for a given rise in MHz compared to other CPUs.)

SSE2 instruction support - SSE2 instructions are special instructions that Intel added to the P4.  Since the upcoming AMD cpus can now use them, it means they will gain in performance in applications currently optimized for the P4.

Improved branch prediction -  Branch prediction allows a processor to, in effect, guess what data is will need in the future and prefetch it into the CPUs L2 cache.  If the CPU guesses right, it doesn't have to wait to get the data from RAM.  If it guesses wrong, it simply discards the prefetched data from the L2 cache.

Increased L2 cache size - The Opteron has a 1 MB L2 cache, vs 256 or 512 kB on the Athlon XP and 256 or 512 kB on the P4.  A cache is basically memory on the CPU itself that runs at the speed of the CPU.  In general, the larger the amount of cache that a processor has, the better it will perform.  (Certain applications are more sensitive to cache size than others.)  AMD does plan to make a "budget" version of the Athlon 64 with 256 kB of L2 cache in the future.

There are some other minor improvements as well.

Offline jonnyb

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 593
What is a 64bit processor?
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2003, 10:35:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
You're wrong, there are motherboards for Opteron with an AGP slot.

You can even buy one ready http://www.pcfx.cc/


Read the second of my posts...I listed one that was released...namely the Asus.

Offline fritz6786

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4
What is a 64bit processor?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2003, 06:38:00 PM »
apple made it first, for all the pc enthusiasts, apple doesent get the credit it diserves. amd was not the origionater but all the other companies jumped on apples innovation bandwagon.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2003, 06:41:21 PM by fritz6786 »

Offline qts

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 782
      • None yet
What is a 64bit processor?
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2003, 04:37:12 AM »
The Opteron supports 40 bit (1 TB) physical addressing and 48 bit (256 TB) virtual addressing, per AMD's specification sheet. That should keep us busy for a couple of years.  Mind you, there are already people who manipulate multi-TB arrays.

64 bit chips have been with us for a while, but I'm very glad they're about to hit the mainstream.