Author Topic: Following Sqaud Ops Rules (Read 868 times)

Strange · « **on:** August 23, 2003, 10:54:41 PM »

I have to say the last frame of Ichigo really sucked wind. I was very displeased with the lack enforcement of reup's of GV's in the start of the game. A couple of people reup right after they were killed. The target area's that were supose to be hit/attacked were not followed. And I just find the experiance overall quite displeasing.

After a short discussion with a CM. He's view's on it were oh well can't catch everything. I'm sorry but thats not how it should be issue should have been handled. There needs to be some form of check's and balance.

Or else it ruin's the fun for others. Namely the poor sole who gets take out by someone not paying attention to their orders. And doing what ever they want to do.

I hpe there are others that feel the same way about this issue.

jordi · « **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2003, 11:56:18 PM »

It may be hard to catch and ENFORCE DURING the frame.

I will let the Squad OP CM's know about your posting so they can check into things.

Mike "DmdJordi" Bowman
AH Scenario CM Staff

Nomde · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2003, 04:37:51 PM »

Jordi
I know the CM's have the logs, but if they want me to list the specific concerns, I have them availible.

One of importance is a GV which had died, immediately re-upped and killed one of our pilots, which effected later events of the night. It was my understanding that the axis had one life as GV's then at T+45 could re-up ina plane.

It's understood that not all activities can be moderated, and that alot of the rules are honored to by the squadren CO's. This honor system by it's very nature helps remove some of the load on the CM's, and works by and large.
Is there some other method availible to reduce the above situation from occuring? As in, a software switch which detects when a player ups after dying. The logs already have a resultant code for when we up, how we die, and the times of each, so the conditions have been met to monitor these same by the system, and not manually.

jordi · « **Reply #3 on:** August 24, 2003, 08:19:07 PM »

Best thing to do is pass on what ever info you have to your Squad OPS CO and have him pass it on to the Squad OPS CM's.

We do not have at this time a fool proof method to automatically enforce what happens after someone dies.

Mike "DmdJordi" Bowman
AH Scenario CM Staff

daddog · « **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2003, 10:31:00 PM »

Since the beginning any squad who had pilots that broke rules were, and still are the responsibility of the C.O. If he does not deal with it then the CM’s can and should remove the Squads from the Squad Operations for a tour. The rulles say so.

One squad can really ruin the fun for several squad. CM’s don’t hesitate to pull the plug after warning a squad for breaking any number of rules.

I would much rather fly with a solid, responsible, pro-active 10 squads than 20 squads and half don’t know what they are doing, have lazy C.O.’s and or don’t show up ½ the time.

Holder3 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2003, 11:01:54 PM »

Hi all,

Innomin8 and I had a conversation with Strange after the frame. I'm sorry that you got whacked early by someone reupping immediately after you killed him. It does indeed suck. I shall forward to this Squadron CO a note about his infraction.

As you have read, there isn't much that we can do about this type of situation during the game, the software isn't that sophisticated. It may be cold comfort to know that this player was the only one to do this. Overall, I think the players are coming to realize the different rules in SquadOps from the MA, but there will always be new players to train. Also, some squads basically recruit walkons by having them register as part of their squad, for the current frame. This may have something to do with this type of behaviour.

daddog · « **Reply #6 on:** August 25, 2003, 05:20:11 PM »

CM's could also considering inforcing "no walkon's" again. This has seemed to slip. Used to be "guests" had to contact the squad prior to the event. Now I see many walk on and ask for a spot and some squads snatch them up. A mistake IMHO. I don't allow any guests in our squad unless we talked about it prior to the event.

Vulcan · « **Reply #7 on:** August 25, 2003, 08:59:51 PM »

Don't forget the Vulcan has unlimited lives when an FDB CMs rule

Midnight · « **Reply #8 on:** September 02, 2003, 11:21:20 AM »

IIRC, didn't HTC add some sort of life counter in the last patch? I thought this "life counter" could be used to prevent people from re-upping after being killed by the set number of lives allowed.

Personally, I think Squad Ops has been degrading in quality for quite a while. There's a lot I would like to see changed or modified...

1. no re-ups except for disco. If you crash on takeoff or whatever, why should you be granted a second life? There's two sides to the argument, but I think realism of the event should weigh more on the outcome.

2. I think the forced "attack here and defend there" orders should be relaxed some. I know it was changed so that people wouldn't end up seeing no action during the event, but it makes for unbalanced play a majority of the time. Somewhere that has 6 guys assigned to defend might get 20+ enemy coming to attack, or visa-versa. Getting slaughtered by overwhelming numbers is no fun either.

I'd like to see the objectives tightened up rather than spread 150+ miles and get all the players into a smaller area again. I know it was changed to spread the action do to plane count restrictions, but how much different is it from the MA at prime time?

There's a lot more I'd like to write, but got to go for now... I'll post more later...

Suave · « **Reply #9 on:** September 08, 2003, 09:31:51 PM »

I agree completely Midnight .

jordi · « **Reply #10 on:** September 08, 2003, 09:57:02 PM »

The problem with the "One Life Counter" as far as I know is that it RESETS for the player when he leaves and comes back into the arena !

Or something like that - To the best of my knowledge.

BlkKnit · « **Reply #11 on:** September 08, 2003, 10:03:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by daddog
CM's could also considering inforcing "no walkon's" again. This has seemed to slip. Used to be "guests" had to contact the squad prior to the event. Now I see many walk on and ask for a spot and some squads snatch them up. A mistake IMHO. I don't allow any guests in our squad unless we talked about it prior to the event.

I agree with this, however, not sure we can make it stick. If a guy comes in and asks on country channel or room and CM is not there, then theres no way to know. It is written on the MOTD in CAPS, for petes sake. But still if a squad is looking a bit low and a pilot comes that they know (or even that they dont, sometimes) they will send him an invite. I have no real problem with this as long as its kept to a minimum, but it could throw #'s off if abused.

I know one thing however, I will no longer be allowing gunners positions to be filled by walkons (if I have any say in it)....this past sunday it caused me a major migrane and probably some of the pilots too.
I apologize to ramzey 13prommet and crew for any problems they had sunday because of this.

Suave · « **Reply #12 on:** September 08, 2003, 10:12:52 PM »

What I see happening in sqops is this; from the objectives one knows what planes the enemy has, what he is going to attack and where he his coming from . Because of this it usually boils down to whichever side has the lightest offensive task wins .

Squads mostly fly around seperately and operate independantly of eachother. The result of which is more like an axis vs allies squad level KOTH rather than a scenario frame .

Sarge · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2003, 12:21:01 PM »

as someone watching from out side all i see is that side a caps this field and hits this field. side b caps field were hitting and attacking the field we leave from.. where is the element of surprise. I dont hink in real life that planes flew at 20000 ft all day long capping thier field waiting for some one to come. they should be a lilttle more realistic than that. Radar is used way to much you can see where the enemy is coming from way to many times. there was not that much radar in WW2 mostly it was search and destroy missions. sometime you found them some times it is boring. dont turn it into a fuball arena. if you get that bored for a once a week 2hr tod stay in MA and furball away, come on guys you cant sit still for 2hrs a week an maybe not find a fight. if you are going to keep say REAL in Sqd ops then make it real or as close as you can, I am tired going to every arena and watching furballs and lack of team work. this is not to all or any one sqd in particular. But just lloks that way from a nobody flying in a sqd and participating. if you want realizm then some will have to quit crying about being bored. cause in real war there is more bordem than there are thrills and there is the element of surprise which is lacking in the past.. And Bombers saw way more action than any figther did, they escorted and looked for targets of oppurtunity and hit bases without radar and cap already flying waiting for you to come.. it is set up to much for furballing than actual combat type mission

this is from an ouside view. so dont take it personally cause what i observe,

ghostdancer · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2003, 01:15:52 PM »

Well lets see:

[list=1]

Radar is used very infrequently in Squad Ops. In Burma (Friday), Burma (Sunday), No Day at the Beach, Operation Husky, and Ichigo SSOs there was no radar. There is bar dar going in the current friday Channel fight .. radar was available at this time but its not dot dar and it is not updated instaneously but has a lag.
The "mulligan" rule is only 15 minute window. It was instituted because of people accidentally shooting down other planes on launch, or crashing (especially off of CVs) at launch. As long as the planes take no damage from enemy fire of any sort it was decided that the players would have a 15 minute rule to cover unexpected things happening. So far I have not seen this really affect game play at all since opposing forces have not really engaged each other in T+15. After that its only disconnects and after T+30 not even for that.

We instituted the mulligan rule at players requests and I have not been in a squad ops yet where players and C.O.s have not asked for a special extension because of this or that circumstance that came up.

So we can get strick and say only reups for disconnects but we would have just as many people asking the CM individually to make an extension because of X. And all squads have done this at one point or another under my watch.

The biggest complaint by squads is always coming into SSOs and seeing no action at all. This is why we assign targets and tell the opposing side what their opponents targets are. It is best compromise we have to make sure that squads will see action and trying to spread the battle out so that no one squad gets smacked by overwhelming numbers. Although it still happens do to how CiC put together their battle plans.

Also by spreading out targets or having many multiple targets we try to allow for many possible attack routes. Yes, you know what the target is but when is it going to be attacked? From what direction? Is you opponent going to try to sweep you first or draw you away from the target while a strike force tries to sneak in? etc. ... all of this depends on the plans that the player CiC puts together. Some are better than others.

We did not spread out targets because of plane restrictions (that was done when we had a much smaller server that had more problems). They are spread out for the reasons above. Suave is experimenting to see what happens with only a few targets with large combat forces involved.

Bomber and JABO action is intergral to the events. The targets assigned are sinking ships or blowing up ground facilities or preventing that from happening.

I value the input and will go over it with the CMs. But part of the items involved and how frames play out depends on what frame CiCs do. I do have to say that while the items above are valuable to me and we will see what we can do to accomodate your points that I also have to speak to all the Squads C.O.s about several issues concerning their responsibilities.

[list=1]

Each squad is responsible for turning out at least their minimum committment level numbers (-2) per each frame. Several squads have not and at times have not even showed for frames. Leading to speculation from other squads sent to me that they are only turning out when they like the orders or their rides.
Frame CiCs have to get back to getting orders out at least 2 days before frame day. We now have a bad habit forming of getting orders out the day before of the day of.
No walkons! I will allow walkons to gun for a buff but no squad should sign a person to their squad who walks into the arena and says who wants me?
All C.O.s need to impress on their pilots the rules and will be held accountable for their players breaking the rules .. especially on reupping a second time when they shouldn't. Each incidence will be evaluated on an individual basis. But C.O.s know the rules and most of the squads here have been doing this for a long time (we only have 3 new squads).