Author Topic: Bush Sees the Light (Blue Flag)  (Read 3196 times)

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2003, 07:47:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mia389
We could just say hell with the Iraqy people then and leave em.  We got Sadam out of there wich was the number 1 goal. They can make there own goverment now but I bet we would be back in 10-20 years doing the same thing. Might be cheaper then trying to rebuild the country for them.


I thought WMD was..

Offline Ping

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« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2003, 08:14:07 PM »
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Originally posted by Fishu
I thought WMD was..


It was. But goals need to be changed just like dirty Underwear, as the situation warrants :D
I/JG2 Enemy Coast Ahead


Offline DmdMac

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« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2003, 08:32:03 PM »
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
"Captain, I am detecting a high concentration of trolls in this thread, recommend caution"

Daniel


Really Spock? I see stupid people.

Kirk out

Offline DmdMac

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« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2003, 08:59:26 PM »
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
The UN was about as effective at keeping Saddam under check as the League of Nations was at keeping Germany under check after WW1.


In the particular case of Germany and WWII, it was the overly harsh restrictions, and sanctions placed on Germany that made them reach for any shred of reprieve, even if it was from a dictorial megalomaniac with dreams of owning the world.

Quote

This time around someone said "enough's enough" and did something about it. Maybe if someone had gone in and preemptively kicked Hitler's bellybutton there would have been far less suffering and bloodshed 60 years ago. [/B]


And if the vanquished had not been crushed, and made to suffer so long, Hitler would probably not been taken seriously by the German population. Unfortunately he was taken seriously, and millions died for it.  Some are beginning to learn that human nature does not allow for humiliation. It is akin to *not* allowing an individual to pay for his/her crime and given a chance to start over, and punishing them continuously unto the grave.

I'm not arguing for either side, really.  Saddam was an ass. He's gone.  France, Germany, Russia, and anyone else who didn't assist should just stfu.  They didn't take the risk.  At the same time, I'm still waiting for the WMD cache to appear.  Where is this alleged stockpile?  I supported Bush in the beginning, now I'm not so sure I made a trully informed decision.

I generally don't get involved in political discussions as they are pointless.  Nowhere will you find such deep seated bias, whimsical flip flopping, vindictive mud slinging, and so much I-told-you-so as you will in poli sci debates.  I'll take a discourse in literature and the nature of man over poli sci anyday.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2003, 09:51:53 PM by DmdMac »

Offline Dago

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« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2003, 10:58:21 PM »
Yes, the UN is still irrelevant, it has become an absolutely useless organization.  

Everyone will have to forgive me when their country suffers deaths from terrorism if I fail to feel sorry for you.  Bury your head in the sand now, there are those intent on evil who will be sneaking up on your exposed bellybutton to land a lethal kick.

What happened in Bali?  What did either the citizens of Bali or Australia do to deserve the bombing of innocents?  Nothing   Can this happen in your country?  YES

Should you expect it?  YES

Is your country doing anything proactive and substantial to stop terrorist acts from happening in the future?  Probably not

Time to face facts, even you smug armchair warriors, there are people out there who hate, who envy your lifestyle, people who consider you a fair target for a number of reasons, including your choice of worship.

Will terrorism only be focused on the United States in the future?  Nope

Do we need help in Iraq?  Not really, we could just choose to say "the hell with it" and stomp down with an iron fist.  We could bomb that country into oblivion, we could put our troops into "search and destroy" mode and clean house.  We are choosing instead to try and help them form a government/security force that will allow them self-rule.  One that will allow all Iragis to live in a peaceful country where they don't have to live in fear of a brutal killler of a dictator, where they can pursue a life of freedom and prosperity, where their children can be educated, receive adequate medical care and have sufficient food and water.

Those goals won't be achieved by the US bombing them, or the soldiers kicking thier tulips in combat, but by the more developed nations all coming together to bring Iraq out of the past and moving towards a future.  The first step was the removal of the brutal regime of killers and thugs.

The responce from you Europeans is pathetic.  The responce from countries like France, Germany and Russia is worse.  They are consumed by greed, placing it above the common good or the welfare now of the innocents of Iraq.  Why didn't they want to remove Saddam?  Because they were making big bucks selling them everything they could, including arms, in violation of UN resolutions.  Now they don't want to help the Iraqis secure a future if they can't first guarantee they will be able to return to the teat of Iraqi contracts.

Only by the combined efforts of developed nations working together to root out terrorist organizations and eliminate them will this world every be able to escape the omnipresent threat and fear these organizations present.

Has the USA made mistakes in Iraq?  Yes, no doubt.  But please show me any country that hasn't made a mistake or two.  Then show me a country that has done more to help other countries in the distant or more recent past than the USA.

I believe alot of my countrymen are starting to feel as I do, that it's time to say the hell with the rest of you, don't look to us for help next time you find yourself in deep shxt.

This whole freaking stupid thread reminds me of a former WB squaddie from a South American country who used to bxtch about how we (the USA) didn't make sure the hundreds and hundreds of millions (probably billions) we gave his country weren't being spent well.   It didn't seem to occur to him that 1) We were at least trying to help them, at a tremendous cost to our tax base, 2) The mis-spending of the money was HIS countrys fault, they were the ones wasting it.  Instead of being embarrassed about his countrys pathetic situation, he could only fault the USA.

Sadly too common anymore.

Let those who are working to bring about change judge, the rest of you might consider keeping your comments to yourself.

Dago
« Last Edit: September 05, 2003, 11:03:16 PM by Dago »
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline Staga

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« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2003, 11:26:08 PM »
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Originally posted by Toad

But hey, the UN might be THE SOLUTION! Look how well UN intervention in the Israeli/Arab/Palestinian situation quickly resolved the problem and led to a long-lasting peace.  :)
 


Would be easier for UN to do its job if US wouldn't shout "Veto" every time they hear word "Israel" while sitting in the security council.

Offline Staga

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« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2003, 11:49:19 PM »
Toad here some reading for you: http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html

I'm pretty sure you knew all this earlier but didn't think they would have any effect on UN's efficiency in middle east eh?

If you want to critizise how the middle-east situation is/was handled you should contact your own government.

Now piss off.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2003, 11:53:41 PM by Staga »

Offline Dago

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« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2003, 03:11:46 PM »
2 down, 15 to go and its all ours.   :D
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2003, 06:20:22 PM »
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Originally posted by DmdMac
France, Germany, Russia, and anyone else who didn't assist should just stfu


They should STFU when Bush is asking them to Bail is bellybutton out??  LOL!!

Offline Dago

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« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2003, 07:25:55 PM »
Thrawn,
See my post on the first page. maybe you can guess what I think of your posts.  


dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline Toad

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« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2003, 12:31:43 AM »
So, Staga.. you're saying there'd be peace love and happiness in Israel, Palestine, the Golan Heights, Lebanon and the Sinai if ONLY the US hadn't vetoed those resolutions?

Are you saying that?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline DmdMac

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« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2003, 12:44:02 AM »
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Originally posted by Thrawn
They should STFU when Bush is asking them to Bail is bellybutton out??  LOL!!


The venom in your statement already displays your bias.  But I'll still ask, for giggles, was that stated by Bush as such, or is that how you perceive it?

A fool's view is skewed usually to slant ridicule away from themself. And by virtue of our First Amendment rights, they are allowed to pass it up with impunity, and they do so with abandon, because it is the only direction they can send it.  To pass it down is to risk conflict with peers, and to send it laterally is pointless since the argument usually dwindles to a draw.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2003, 01:12:43 AM by DmdMac »

Offline Staga

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« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2003, 06:47:08 AM »
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Originally posted by Toad
So, Staga.. you're saying there'd be peace love and happiness in Israel, Palestine, the Golan Heights, Lebanon and the Sinai if ONLY the US hadn't vetoed those resolutions?

Are you saying that?


I really don't know. Do you ?

Your government has made it pretty hard to UN to work in middle east. No problems; we're used to that.
But please; don't b1tch about UN and how it works after all those vetoes in security council. It looks pretty stupid.

IMHO of course, YMMV.

Offline Seeker

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« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2003, 07:07:32 AM »
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Originally posted by Dago
 


What happened in Bali?  What did either the citizens of Bali or Australia do to deserve the bombing of innocents?  Nothing   Can this happen in your country?  YES

Should you expect it?  YES
Dago [/B]


It has happened in my country many, many times, over many, many years; and your country fostered, supplied, armed and bank rolled it.

Quote
Originally posted by Dago

Is your country doing anything proactive and substantial to stop terrorist acts from happening in the future?  Probably not

Dago [/B]


Yes, or at least, we were, until your country stuck it's nose in and now instead of shooting to kill we have the Good Friday agreement.

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Originally posted by Dago

Will terrorism only be focused on the United States in the future?  Nope

Dago [/B]


It never has been.

Quote
Originally posted by Dago

The responce from you Europeans is pathetic.  The responce from countries like France, Germany and Russia is worse.  

Dago [/B]


Sounds like your geography is wanting. Europeans are your ONLY ON THE GROUND ALLIES. Basra, remember?

Offline Toad

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« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2003, 08:58:46 AM »
MY government impededs the UN process?

LOL!

The UN has almost NEVER taken any actual "action" anywhere, anytime. The few times it has actually acted, it's been following the leadership of the US.

It's a fine debating society.... but nothing gets done. Well, except for passing resolutions that are never acted upon, of course.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!