Sweden votes no in Euro vote....

[Eagler]

[cpxxx]

Dowding, you talk as if the UK was outside the EU. In fact that is common among the anti Euro element.  The UK is on the gravy train already and doing quite nicely thank you.  I'm glad to see that you tacitly admit the Britain is no longer a global player.

It always seems to me listening to the anti Euro debate in Britain that it's as much to do with coming to terms with post colonialism and the last of the belief in Britain as a major player in world affairs. It seems to me that the no campaign emphasise the loss of soverignity issue while the pro Euro campaign point out the economic benefits.  In my opinion the anti Euro and the anti EU bloc are one and the same.  Your comments prove that.  There is far too much emotional nationalism attached to the Euro debate in Britain. At the end of the day it's money only money.

[Nilsen]

May i ask where you live cpxxx ?

If i can.....where do you live?

[Dowding]

In 20 years time our current position will be considered to be as far removed from the EU as 50 years ago. That's how far I think the EU concept will go in the coming decades.

I was born in 1978. The UK had lost most of it's sizeable colonies decades before - I don't long for the Empire. I have no real concept of it. But I don't for a second believe we are some tiny State that should sign up to some federal Europe or be swallowed up. We have the 4th largest economy in the world. We are a gateway for trade with Europe from all corners of the globe - that wouldn't neccessarily cease in 20xx because we didn't join the Euro at this moment in time.

I want to be in Europe, not ruled by Europe. I don't want decisions made by Frenchmen, or Germans or Poles to affect my life or my country anymore than they do now. I don't like British politicians - I'll be damned if I trust a bunch of unaccountable foreigners largely made up from the ranks of failed domestic politicians in their respective countries. Nope. No way. Not within the current set-up.

Take a hatchet to the Commission and I may re-consider.

[Saurdaukar]

Originally posted by Dowding
Until that day, it is a talking shop where the Germans and French can pretend they are global players, on a par with Russia and the US, and the smaller countries can pretend they actually have some clout in the world (for the first time).

LOL - ZING!  

Agree with F&G comment.

Disagree that the smaller countries are pretending - I think that theyve finally learned that banding together affords them much more influence - something Blair pushed them in the direction of realizing, IIRC.

[-dead-]

Brits are always slow in anything to do with the European thing. The EEC started in 1958 but the UK joined in 1973. They'll almost certainly be late in joining in on the Euro - but it will happen, because it makes doing business in the EU so much easier, and the majority of the UK's business is with the EU. Trade with the EU makes up an enormous chunk of the UK's world trade: exports to the EU are 3 times the amount of exports to the next highest region - North America - and EU imports are about 5 times the imports of the next highest region - Asia/Oceania (Source). Sure the UK has the 4th largest economy in the world. But Germany has the 3rd largest, France has the 5th and Italy has the 7th. They all use the Euro, and in order to stay 4th largest the UK has to sell them lots of stuff. It's much easier to sell them stuff and buy their stuff if everyone uses Euros - you don't have to constantly keep track of exchange rates and adjust your prices to stay competitive.

As for poor old Dowding's opposition to the Euro to avoid rule by Europe: IMO you're in the wrong vote - The referendum to vote in if you wanted to avoid rule by Europe was back in 1975 - Sadly I fear you're 28 years too late and 23 years too young for that, sorry.

[Dinger]

The problem is there:
You've got an economic union without a unified economy, nor much in the way of controlling economic policy.  In fact, any power there is to control economic policy of member-states lies in the hands of the wealthier countries.  And you're dealing with political systems that increasingly favor the screwing of the larger good for that of the politician/party/state.
So what happens if say, France and Italy decide to rack up huge budgetary deficits, threatening the stability of the Euro?  What can the EU do besides have a lot of meetings and whine about it?

[Staga]

GM is already makeing plans to build future Saabs in U.S instead in Sweden. They want a stable currency and nobody knows what happens to Swedish currency now or in next 10 years.

[beet1e]

-dead- - good post I remember that 1975 EU Referendum - first time I ever voted.

I'm 50-50 on joining the Euro. The bad thing is surrendering control of interest rates. During the summer, Germany's economy was slowing down, and they really needed to cut interest rates to about �% to stimulate their economy. But they were stuck with an EU decided interest rate of 3�%.

OTOH, I agree entirely about having a single currency making trade more convenient, and avoiding bank charges for all those currency conversions. I used to work for a Japanese car company which sold about 30,000 cars annually in the UK - not huge - but also had plants in four other European countries. But even for this smallish company, the annual cost in bank charges for all the currency switching came to about �7m. So in 1992, they started their own "bank" - a branch of the business to centralise financial transactions between the different countries to avoid bank charges.

I want to see how it goes in the first five years. If by 2007 there has been no crisis arising from the interest rate control issue, I might lean more towards supporting a move to join the �uro. But oh! Not many people want that federal govt.

[Fishu]

beet1e,

You're already part of the this thing you refer to as "federal govt", regardless of the euro issue.

[miko2d]

mora: I dont see what's the big deal in euro.  The EU is a bigger deal and I would have voted no if I had a chance.

 Control of money is a huge deal. If it cannot be free-market monetary system, at least a country would keep sovereign control over it.

 Who knows what kind of european government will end up in control of Euro over the next 100 years. Swedes will surely not have enough votes to do anything about its policy, so why take a risk?

 They can always peg their currency to Euro for a while, if they wanted ease of accounting.


Staga: GM is already makeing plans to build future Saabs in U.S instead in Sweden. They want a stable currency and nobody knows what happens to Swedish currency now or in next 10 years.

 I bet it will be more stable than the dollar.

 miko

[cpxxx]

Ireland,  Nilsen. Currently we are 'suffering' full employment, immigration and a still (just) growing economy, lowish taxes. Mainly because the country is run essentially on the British/American model. Something which many other countries in Europe would do well to follow. The Euro hasn't exactly damaged the Irish economy. The only real negative aspect of the Euro was the fact that people like Doctor, Dentists, hairdressers and other service providers etc racked up their prices shortly after the changeover. Otherwise it has been mostly positive. The other positive aspect to me is as the Euro increases in value against the dollar, my subcription to AH gets lower every month!

Personally I feel that most of the anti Euro debate is spurious. Despite all the doom mongering the changeover worked quite well. Issues like a federal government etc are just red herrings. No one is ready for that idea right now in the Euro zone or not.