Husky Frame 3 logs up

[BlkKnit]

Logs are posted, can be found at:
Event Logs

It seems the invasion of Sicily went according to plans.

Fields A10 and A6 were destroyed and no real axis resistance remained to oppose further strikes.

The allies lost 1 capitol ship (cruiser)

Excellent efforts by both sides

[AndyH]

47 Vs 33

We really need to even these numbers up in some way. I know it is difficult but this was very one sided.

How about reducing the targets required to be hit if one side has much lower numbers than expected? If this would have been the case tonight we could have had more fighters up.

I still had fun tonight, but it could have been more fun for both sides if we evened it out a little.

[ghostdancer]

Frame 1
39 - Axis
38 - Allies

Frame 2
46 - Axis
30 - Allies

Frame 3
33 - Axis
47 - Allies

First frame numbers were even. Second frame the Allies were severely down because ViFF got married on sunday and most of the 101st Israel was at his wedding. Which is why I put the 9 GIAP on the allies side other wise the allies would have been in the 20s.

Question is why were the Axis down by so much? In frame 2 they field 46 pilots. I sent out the objectives to all squads on Tuesday (5 days before the event) so that even if squads did not know their specific missions they new what the objectives were, what the planeset was, and what they might be flying.

Tactically both frame 1 and 2 went to the Axis. The allies were able to do just enough though to keep the invasion on for frame 3.

But you are right Tilt .. I know why the numbers were imbalanced in frame 2. I just need to find out what happened in frame 3 with the Axis drop off.

[B17Skull12]

Originally posted by ghostdancer
Frame 1
39 - Axis
38 - Allies

Frame 2
46 - Axis
30 - Allies

Frame 3
33 - Axis
47 - Allies

First frame numbers were even. Second frame the Allies were severely down because ViFF got married on sunday and most of the 101st Israel was at his wedding. Which is why I put the 9 GIAP on the allies side other wise the allies would have been in the 20s.

Question is why were the Axis down by so much? In frame 2 they field 46 pilots. I sent out the objectives to all squads on Tuesday (5 days before the event) so that even if squads did not know their specific missions they new what the objectives were, what the planeset was, and what they might be flying.

Tactically both frame 1 and 2 went to the Axis. The allies were able to do just enough though to keep the invasion on for frame 3.

But you are right Tilt .. I know why the numbers were imbalanced in frame 2. I just need to find out what happened in frame 3 with the Axis drop off.

they were low becuase JB forgot to remind all JB's about ToD only 3 showed. i think JB42 wasn't online

[ghostdancer]

Actually I just looked at the numbers for the frames. And it looks like the Axis squads had a drop across most of their squads from frame 2 to 3.

MAG-33 went from 10 to 4
AirMageddon went from 7 to 3
56th Firebirds went from 9 to 6
The Wings of Death   went from 6 to 10
Lentolaivue went from 4 to 7
III/Jabostaffel went from 10 to 3

All squads stayed within their minimum range. So they met their responsibilities. But 3 out of 6 squads fielded 50% less than in frame 2. And a fourth went down by 33%.

The question is why?

Was it something I did in the objectives that turned people away? Was it something else? But losing 25% of your strength definitely hurt.

[B17Skull12]

ghostdancer im also thinking of pulling my squad out of squad ops sunday.1 of my pilots found a new squad that resolved a time difference thing. my xo is having internet problems and since he lives in the middle of nowhere they dont know how long til they fix it. but i have manage to get together a few people from MA that will subsitute. dont know how long that will hold out.

[214thCavalier]

OK if you wanna check the stats, lets see why its hard to get people to come back and fly axis with the current aircraft selection.

First and foremost you gotta have fun, but fighting spits, p51's and typhoons in these numbers with the axis selection was nigh on impossible.

Their was no way we could have put a credible defence over our fields, the spits came in and were stooging around at 33 -34k the 109g2 cannot live with them at that alt, spits do everything better in the stratosphere.

Talk about fish in a barrel.

And the most telling statistic ?

Axis
1 Kill
0 assists

Yea we had great fun.

To make it worse we expected buffs to come in and attack the fields, so tooled up with gondolas we find the skies swarming with spits and p51's and then the final kick in the nuts was the rocket ships armed with 4 Hispano's  (typhoons).

You could at least have given the allies an attack aircraft that would have forced them into some escort duty. As it was the Typhoons would have been more than capable on there own!

Have to say I am glad i decided to give up the Mag33 SSQ Ops CO position earlier in the week, because from now on i shall feel no obligation whatsoever to have to attend on a Sunday.
I guess most of the boys must feel the same judging by the turn out.

So far only one person in Mag33 has expressed any interest in taking the Sunday CO position, and thats reluctantly but at least he has offered.

[ramzey]

come on Cavalier

what should we say after frame 2?
frame 1 was not bad for axis too, ONE allies plane left alive

Typhoons was used ONLY as JABO planes and take ONE kill,  focused on porking field. All typhoons not fly higher then 16k
I not see reason to whine about tiffies.

I know good for you wil be if allies will allways fly 5k lower and wait till you pick them as cherrys;)


Point is in NUMBERS  and squadies who not show up, all the rest is relative

ramzey

[BlkKnit]

I have to say that from my perspective, 109's against those spits and tiffie's sounds like fun, but the numbers imbalance killed any fun to be had.  Squads need to get more participants (I know thats hard to do) and maybe plan ahead by trolling MA for fill-ins (If ya know 'em and want to fly with 'em).  I guess I just like the 109's, I was kinda bummed on friday night when my squad had 190 A5's.  I wish I could talk a few MAW guys into flying sunday SO.

[214thCavalier]

Ramzey let me put it like this,

Frame 1

Allied 38 pilots and 26 kills
Axis   39 pilots and 33 kills

Overall pretty even.

Frame 2

Allied 30 pilots and 32 kills
Axis   46 pilots and 17 kills

Oh my Axis had a 16 pilot advantage and yet the allies had twice the number of kills.

Ramzey you think this is a valid reason to point to frame 2 as a bad frame for the allies ?

Frame 3

Allies 47 pilots and 19 kills
Axis   33 pilots and 1 kill.

Oops guess the axis must have had raw recruits flying today !

So how can I or anybody else actually expect to encourage more people into SOP's ?

Unless of course they only want to fly allied ?

Also remember LLV34 specialise in flying 109's as a squad and very good they are doing it.

BUT not one single kill did they manage between them.

And dont forget the entire AXIS side between them got ONE kill.

That is no fun at all for those flying Axis and i doubt it was very enjoyable for the allied fighting amongst themselves over who could get to the kill first.

And my point about the Typhoons is they could have done the entire allied mission just with typhoons, they are the fastest and most heavily armed aircraft you could employ for a Jabo attack. Once the bombs are gone they transform into a highly capable fighter.

I am not complaining of the tactics the allies used as you just take advantage of the plane set givenm to the best of your abilities.

But to me the combination of Spit IX, P51B, and Typhoons although great for the allied side was always going to be a major problem for the axis to effectively combat.

In effect we ended up with approx 22 fighters defending  v 47 fighters attacking.

As the scores show we could not fight at all, that is what really grips my ****.

I flew for an hour totally defensive, running, diving for AAA cover etc waiting for the expected buffs to attack (of course they never came) and eventually fired my guns for approx 1 second hitting nothing just before losing my wing.

Yep thats my kind of fun.

[AndyH]

Originally posted by ramzey
I know good for you wil be if allies will allways fly 5k lower and wait till you pick them as cherrys;)
ramzey

Nobody is asking for this, you always seem to be the first to jump on someone when they highlight problems with setup or rules.

If we do not discuss the problems SSO will be dead in jig time.

[ramzey]

sorry i was out of town for 2 days;)

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Ramzey let me put it like this,

Frame 1

Allied 38 pilots and 26 kills
Axis   39 pilots and 33 kills

Overall pretty even.

Frame 2

Allied 30 pilots and 32 kills
Axis   46 pilots and 17 kills

Oh my Axis had a 16 pilot advantage and yet the allies had twice the number of kills.

Ramzey you think this is a valid reason to point to frame 2 as a bad frame for the allies ?

Frame 3

Allies 47 pilots and 19 kills
Axis   33 pilots and 1 kill.

Oops guess the axis must have had raw recruits flying today !

So how can I or anybody else actually expect to encourage more people into SOP's ?

Unless of course they only want to fly allied ?

short memory?;-)
http://www.webtreatz.com/tod/squaddisp.asp?eventid=55703794&description='Operation%20huskey%20frame%203'

Also remember LLV34 specialise in flying 109's as a squad and very good they are doing it. [/b]

No doubt LLV34 is great squadron, we have honor to fight with them in frame one. But same story we have couple months ago when after intercept allied bombers and sloughter them, we was overhelmed by spits. Who not defend bombers just cap at 30k. Pitty we kill bombers before they even saw us. And end in **** when f4u reinforcment inbounnd .
I not remember we whine about that;-)
I make som mistakes in command when we rejoin battle after fight with bombers, was my foult and my pilots, we let them kill us

BUT not one single kill did they manage between them.

And dont forget the entire AXIS side between them got ONE kill.
[/b]

well, beter i say . You guys have bad day

That is no fun at all for those flying Axis and i doubt it was very enjoyable for the allied fighting amongst themselves over who could get to the kill first.[/b]

And my point about the Typhoons is they could have done the entire allied mission just with typhoons, they are the fastest and most heavily armed aircraft you could employ for a Jabo attack. Once the bombs are gone they transform into a highly capable fighter.[/b]

true, but we have very busy strike schedule, just hit and run
it was my first TOD since im in AH, when i flew best plane in frame
and we stuck in to jabo missions only;(

I am not complaining of the tactics the allies used as you just take advantage of the plane set givenm to the best of your abilities.

But to me the combination of Spit IX, P51B, and Typhoons although great for the allied side was always going to be a major problem for the axis to effectively combat.
[/b]

Allies use best his resource in frame 3 as they can, are you remember threat about som frame CO who not use tanks when half of axis side stuck in to Tigers?

Planeset was quite historical, and was deadly mix for axis.
But i see this like, complaining about planeset when we get sloughtered.  You cant win every time due diferent circumstances.
Early war planeset is better for axis, late for allies. Its hard to balance sides when half of axis side not show up
In case like this CO do best as he can do. If not win just to have fun. What if our tiffie flight will be attacked by 15 x190? I bet we not have chances to surviwe if they strike and run.

In effect we ended up with approx 22 fighters defending  v 47 fighters attacking.

As the scores show we could not fight at all, that is what really grips my ****.

I flew for an hour totally defensive, running, diving for AAA cover etc waiting for the expected buffs to attack (of course they never came) and eventually fired my guns for approx 1 second hitting nothing just before losing my wing.

Yep thats my kind of fun. [/B]

Polish proverb "once above, other time under waggon"

regards
ramzey

edited- som typos;-)

[ramzey]

Originally posted by AndyH
Nobody is asking for this, you always seem to be the first to jump on someone when they highlight problems with setup or rules.

If we do not discuss the problems SSO will be dead in jig time.

Andy i just jocking, i not say design was perfect.
And here is strange i defend CM's, when i should attack them;)
Bad you see problems when they touch you, we was whining about som things much, much earlier.;-) when noone support us

But main problem is with numbers of attenders in SSO.
Its hard to design anything when you not know how many show up and for how many players you design battle.
Low numbers enforce somtimes strange solutions.
We cannot use designs build for friday, due much lower numbers of players. And SSO CM team looks a bit lost in this. And here we have reason.
Hard to convince anyone to design , and hard to desigh battle for few. We (me?;-) ) force  som of design CM's to step back due not good design's.
But i can say we have good setup CM, since months noone of frame was delayed. And was no major mistakes in setup.

Ghostdancer is nothing personal, we understand good each other. And i understand your good will. But seems you have too much work with 2 events at once. Could we have new blood?

If we work together. Squads CO's should assure registered numbers and "force" his people to be earlier then T-1
CM's can easier balance sides.
In rules about planeset we need add "all planes listed as available, MUST be used" or something like that. To prevent "smart command" (designed by ramzey;-) )
We can rebuild numbers in sunday.
I really not like to see this event dead, but if you not bring more players we cannot have better fun.

Here works words of JFK "not ask what your ............"" ( or something like that)

ramzey

[ghostdancer]

No offense taken Ramsey and I taking all the input in stride and thinking about it and how to improve things.

As for new blood .. Grayarea is back and will be running the next one. Believe me, I want a break too after doing 3 admins in a row for sunday.

As for also doing setup on friday this past two weeks. I was covering for a situation that sidelined the setup CM for that event. And I have found a replacement setup CM for fridays to take over there after sling stepping down.

[214thCavalier]

Ramzey,

The link you provided to an earlier run of Husky does show an equally outnumbered frame but at least the losing side actually managed to get 12 kills.

What annoys me the most about this last frame is that only 1 kill was able to be recorded for the axis.

So how exactly can you seriously expect those players to be eager to return ?

As somebody else already said if you get many frames like this SSO will die and fast.

But hell why should i worry, I am trying to dump the Mag33 SOP's CO position in order to join the ranks of those who just fly when they can be bothered.