« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Who Here Believed The Following?  (Read 1057 times)

Offline midnight Target

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15114
Who Hear Believed The Following?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2003, 11:41:47 AM »
Of course it will take time Rude. But why are we making excuses for the initial act of war now? We went to war because we though there was a significant and impending threat to our country (from WMD). Kind of moral hypocrisy to ignore that dontcha think?
Logged

Offline miko2d

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3177
Re: Who Here Believed The Following?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2003, 12:21:18 PM »
Rude: That we could remove Sadams regime, restore peace to the whole of Iraq, establish a constitution, conduct free elections by the Iraqi people, restore the infrastructure, rebuild the economy, riemburse ourselves thru oil revenues and exit the country, all in 4-6 months?

 Why couldn't we "conduct free elections by the Iraqi people" right now and let them "establish a constitution"?

 Why do we need to keep an army there in order to "restore the infrastructure, rebuild the economy, riemburse ourselves thru oil revenues"?


 miko
Logged

Offline Mighty1

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1161
Who Hear Believed The Following?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2003, 12:30:18 PM »
^ You already know the answer! I'm sure you'll try to put some sort of spin on it thou.
Logged
I have been reborn a new man!

Notice I never said a better man.

Offline AKIron

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12771
Who Hear Believed The Following?
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2003, 01:02:24 PM »
Initially I think I hoped it would be a quick thing, go in and liberate, turn over control. I guess 6 months wouldn't have seemed unreasonable. But when I considered the deep seated hatred among many middle easterners toward the US I realized it would be naive to think we could just topple Saddam and then leave. I believe we're gonna hafta topple another government or two before we're done. War has been declared and it is with those that support those that would actively destroy us.
Logged
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Rude

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4609
Re: Re: Who Here Believed The Following?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2003, 01:11:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
Rude: That we could remove Sadams regime, restore peace to the whole of Iraq, establish a constitution, conduct free elections by the Iraqi people, restore the infrastructure, rebuild the economy, riemburse ourselves thru oil revenues and exit the country, all in 4-6 months?

 Why couldn't we "conduct free elections by the Iraqi people" right now and let them "establish a constitution"?

 Why do we need to keep an army there in order to "restore the infrastructure, rebuild the economy, riemburse ourselves thru oil revenues"?


 miko


Maybe there are some folks outside of Iraq who don't want to see that happen?

Stability ring necessary to achieve those goals in your book?

I can't believe some of what you guys post
Logged

Offline Rude

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4609
Who Hear Believed The Following?
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2003, 01:13:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Of course it will take time Rude. But why are we making excuses for the initial act of war now? We went to war because we though there was a significant and impending threat to our country (from WMD). Kind of moral hypocrisy to ignore that dontcha think?


Who among the Bush crew has denied that we went to war because of a percieved threat?

What excuses and by whom MT?
Logged

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18206
Who Hear Believed The Following?
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2003, 01:20:06 PM »
as stated before..

history will show Iraq was the right move at the right time .. not the hand wringing media and the dumacrat bush haters of today

and if we don't build/relocate military bases into Iraq, we are dumber than dirt...
Logged
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
Who Hear Believed The Following?
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2003, 01:36:15 PM »
Whoa, we're 'occupying' the 'Confederate States of America'?

You lost, get over it.
Logged
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
Who Hear Believed The Following?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2003, 01:36:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Initially I think I hoped it would be a quick thing, go in and liberate, turn over control. I guess 6 months wouldn't have seemed unreasonable. But when I considered the deep seated hatred among many middle easterners toward the US I realized it would be naive to think we could just topple Saddam and then leave. I believe we're gonna hafta topple another government or two before we're done. War has been declared and it is with those that support those that would actively destroy us.



Damn straight... in three or four decades the Iraqi people will grow to love the U.S. ;)
Logged
sand

Offline MrLars

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1447
Re: Who Here Believed The Following?
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2003, 01:43:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude


For me personally, I kinda took Bush at what he said as well as common sense telling me that this would be a long and tough road....some of you seem to believe it was to be painless and without sacrifice....imagine that.


I knew it was going to be a long fight. Although I was in agreement with this administrations position regarding the need to remove Sadam from power, I never thought that WMD should have been the reason pushed by Bush and Co. There was no imminent danger and indeed we are prosecuting an elective war instead, something that, IMO, this administration knew they couldn't 'sell' to the American nor the International public.

The lessons of occupation and democratic conversion of a region of the world that we aren't welcome in has been lost to this administration.

The smarter route would have been to use the international good will we were recieving after the tragedy of 9/11 to our advantage in getting overwhelming international support for persuing the goal of defeating terrorism.

The arrogant and dismisive attitude that the Bush administration had and still has toward the international community is an embarrasment, the 'with us or against us' attitude only feeds the WWF mentality that seems to prevail in the administrations die hard supporters and certainly doesn't make the job in the international arena any easier.
Logged

Offline Gunthr

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3043
      • http://www.dot.squat
Who Hear Believed The Following?
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2003, 01:53:59 PM »
There isn't enough stability for free elections yet. I believe it will happen, but not for a while, I bet.

AFAIC, its moot. We really do need to have a permanent American presence over there. Its strategically obvious. I think its the best way to keep mom and the apple pie safe back here in America. Take the focus to Al-Queda and the rest of Muslim extremists over there. Think of it as a move on a chess board.

Is it right? Is it fair? Is it moral? Were motives sexed-up because they couldn't take the risk that the actual reasons for invading Iraq would fail to overcome partisan or popular objections? I don't really care.

We are being attacked, and Muslim extremists haven't been shy about about telling us why - its because of who we are. OBL and others want a clash of civilizations. We need to advance some force over there, export some democracy, and hopefully influence some of the cultural factors that breed terrorism. I can understand the need to do this, and I can understand the political need to sugar coat it.

I also believe that the international community will help us over there. Its necessary to democratize in that area. You don't hear France clamoring for Islamic rule in Iraq.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2003, 02:07:37 PM by Gunthr »
Logged
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Rude

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4609
Re: Re: Who Here Believed The Following?
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2003, 02:30:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrLars
I knew it was going to be a long fight. Although I was in agreement with this administrations position regarding the need to remove Sadam from power, I never thought that WMD should have been the reason pushed by Bush and Co. There was no imminent danger and indeed we are prosecuting an elective war instead, something that, IMO, this administration knew they couldn't 'sell' to the American nor the International public.

The lessons of occupation and democratic conversion of a region of the world that we aren't welcome in has been lost to this administration.

The smarter route would have been to use the international good will we were recieving after the tragedy of 9/11 to our advantage in getting overwhelming international support for persuing the goal of defeating terrorism.

The arrogant and dismisive attitude that the Bush administration had and still has toward the international community is an embarrasment, the 'with us or against us' attitude only feeds the WWF mentality that seems to prevail in the administrations die hard supporters and certainly doesn't make the job in the international arena any easier.


HEY!!!! You best leave the WWF outta this pal...or else!!!
Logged

Offline miko2d

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3177
Re: Re: Re: Who Here Believed The Following?
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2003, 02:43:20 PM »
Rude: Stability ring necessary to achieve those goals in your book?
I can't believe some of what you guys post

 US was screwing up with that region for the last 80 years - toppling governments (including in both Iran and Iraq), installing puppet regimes, supporting oppressive dictators, supplying and training fundamentalist terrorists.
 Hadn't brought us much stability so far.


Gunthr: We are being attacked, and Muslim extremists haven't been shy about about telling us why - its because of who we are. OBL and others want a clash of civilizations.

 And how would you now what they are saying? Did you read any sources or listen to Al-Jaseera?

 miko
« Last Edit: September 30, 2003, 02:50:40 PM by miko2d »
Logged

Offline midnight Target

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15114
Who Hear Believed The Following?
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2003, 02:43:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
Who among the Bush crew has denied that we went to war because of a percieved threat?

What excuses and by whom MT?


I agree, the Bush admin is sticking to the WMD line. There are many on this BBS however, that spout the following.

"it doesn't matter if there were WMD, aren't the Iraqi's better off?"

"Have you seen the mass graves?"

"Saddam was a bad guy... nuff said."

(those kind of excuses)
Logged

Offline miko2d

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3177
Who Hear Believed The Following?
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2003, 02:55:14 PM »
midnight Target: "Have you seen the mass graves?"

 That was a smart move on the US administration part, wouldn't you agree?

  Incite a whole bunch of fundamental Iran-sympathising shia militants to rebell against their government in the time of war.

 Abandon them to be slaughtered by the government troops.

 Use them as an example of oppression of helpless civilians instead of having to kill them ourselves.

 miko
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
« previous next »