Author Topic: Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq  (Read 3602 times)

Offline Udie

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #120 on: October 09, 2003, 10:00:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Selective memory runs rampant in both "camps" I'm afraid, like how this war was justified. The UN did not sanction an invasion even if Iraq was not in compliance, the war was justified on the premise that Iraq's WMD was a threat to the USA.



NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO


 How many times must it be said before you remember about the other resolutions.  You know the one's dating back to the cease-fire?  


Main Entry: cease-fire
Pronunciation: 'sEs-'fIr
Function: noun
Date: 1859
1 : a military order to cease firing
2 : a suspension of active hostilities


 When you lose a war and you do not follow the terms of surrender guess what?  Just because there is a cease-fire doesn't mean the war has ended.  Where did SH comply with ANY of the resolutions?  He fired missles at my countrymen and English pilots for 12 freakin years.  You do remember why we put the no fly zones up right?  TO STOP HIM FROM MURDERING HIS OWN PEOPLE FROM THE AIR So please save your breath about him defending his country, it doesn't fly.  I heard not one person question anything that was done to Iraq any time we dropped bombs on them in the past 12 years, and it was almost daily.  No one ever disbuted what SH was up to for 12 years. Until Bush finally decided to end the situation the only way it was going to be, with force.

 We can sit here and argue this for ever. This is the last post I'm going to make on this subject.  Any valid justification, and there are many that haven't even been mentioned, is just ignored by you guys. I just think you people either hate a conservative so much that you would never agree to be part of "his war". By the way, it's not his war.  One of the reasons I voted for him was because he said he would do something about Iraq. I cant tell if you really just don't want a war or if you guys just hate America, which I'm sure some do.  Frankly I don't care anymore.  America has protected the free world for over 60 years and I would think most of the free world would be smart enough to realize how bad it would have been if we had not have stood up to the soviet union and that the USA was more interested in freedom and liberty than being an empire.

 Then there's 9/11.  Dude I can't tell you how much that still pisses me off.  I have an image that's been in my head ever since that day.  An African American man jumping to his death.  His red tie clearly visible flapping in the wind.  We ain't ****in around with the terrorist.  You want to know what I'm mad at Bush about?  Hezbala, Islamic Jihad and the other palestinian terrorist that operate out of lebenon financed by Iran, Syria and most other Islamic countries, and formerly financed by saddam himself.  Why are they still there? That's why I'm mad at Bush,  he's not doing enough in my opinion.  I'm sure he has his reasons though.  My point is we're damned serious about what we're doing here. It is a with us or against us kind of situation.  That doesn't mean I expect you guys to go fight along side of us, though that would be nice. It does mean that expect you not to get in our way, that's considered against us to me.  You know with the terrorist.

 The war on terror is a 2 front war, for now.....

Offline Toad

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #121 on: October 09, 2003, 10:12:13 PM »
Brutality? :rofl

Cripes, your the Johnny Cochran for Iraq!

"Yer honor, my client's deliberate slaughter of his citizen after the Gulf War was nothing of the sort!"

Too funny!

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However I think the UN for political reasons wanted to be seen as united against Iraqi aggression following the quite fragile coalition that ousted Iraq from Kuwait.


So, you agree then that the UN itself really didn't have a problem with the no-flys. Thanks.

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Therefore ... inaction rather than take sides.


We agree again. This is the standard operating procedure for the UN in all cases.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline k2cok

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #122 on: October 09, 2003, 10:29:00 PM »
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I just think you people either hate a conservative so much that you would never agree to be part of "his war".


NEWS FLASH:

Bush is not a conservative, he just plays one on TV.

Offline Vulcan

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #123 on: October 09, 2003, 11:02:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Vulcan, I'm sick of people like you who think you have the right to do whatever you want just because you feel it is good. Does it make you feel good to be an international vigilante?


Yes it does. Its better than standing aside having philosophical arguments while people die needlessly.

My inlaws are Cambodian, for the last 15 years I've heard many stories. My wife lost her father and sister to the Khmer Rouge, my ex girlfriend lost her entire family and saw her parents beheaded.

Its a pity Cambodia didn't have oil, any reasons better than standing by and letting millions die.

IIRC one quarter of the Iraqi population lived in exile. Saddams sons used a giant 'brand mulching' machine to execute dissidents. So, please, return to your bashing of GWB, and defence of Uncle Saddam, I'm sure he appreciates it ;)


p.s. I'm not American, so I don't give a flying f*** about the Libs vs Dems rubbish. All I care about is the ends justifies the means.

Offline Vulcan

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #124 on: October 09, 2003, 11:10:24 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
I'm glad I can amuse you ;)
In most cases, yes. And in most cases inaction is the best solution. War on the other hand is not.


Tell the victims of Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler etc that. Or do you have something against Asians, Jews etc that you think justifies the genocidal actions of these maniacs?

Offline Godzilla

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #125 on: October 09, 2003, 11:12:15 PM »
Vulcan

The UN was the entity that condemned Iraq in words only, then hid it's collective french and german head in the sand when words needed action. Makes me sick, some people.

Offline Vulcan

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #126 on: October 09, 2003, 11:21:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Godzilla
Vulcan

The UN was the entity that condemned Iraq in words only, then hid it's collective french and german head in the sand when words needed action. Makes me sick, some people.


I had little faith in the UN since I research why no one helped in Cambodia, basically the UNs attitude was it doesn't get involved in internal issues and the US was getting spanked at home by the anti-war crowd. Now whenever I see peace-marches I call them murderers, it usually provokes a stunned response followed by a 'what do you mean'.

Offline Godzilla

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #127 on: October 09, 2003, 11:30:46 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
What was done with Stalin or Pol Pot? And why not?

There are plenty more cruel leaders around the world, most of them could be taken down with far less resources than what was needed for Hussein. Why isn't this being done?

If you think that the USA went to war in Iraq because Hussein was a monster you are deluding yourself. Think happy thoughts and conveniently forget that nations don't have motives, they have interests. Yes, that the ticket.



Are you saying that you support getting rid of cruel leaders, yet are against getting rid of Hussein because we dont get rid of EVERY cruel leader? Please explain.

Offline Godzilla

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #128 on: October 09, 2003, 11:52:48 PM »
You are correct, the US ( and UK ) didnt go to war against Iraq because they had a cruel leader. We went to war because they did not comply with their obligations that they committed to in order to secure a cease-fire after they were routed out of Kuwait.

If they had complied, they would have been okay.


They posed a threat to the US and others, and they could never be trusted.


So, do you want the US to attack China? Explain your logic because I dont see any logic in your argument.

Please go on record and tell everyone why the US went into IraQ, just so the average Joe will know. You seem to be an insider that knows why the US went into Iraq.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2003, 11:55:57 PM by Godzilla »

Offline rpm

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #129 on: October 10, 2003, 02:06:25 AM »
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline Torque

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #130 on: October 10, 2003, 09:58:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm371


:eek:

Offline AKIron

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #131 on: October 10, 2003, 10:05:26 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
The mere fact that Iraqi oil will be free for sale after the UN sanctions are lifted will save the USA billions in lowered oil prices. Then there is the rebuilding of Iraq's oil industry. I can see how US companies can get very lucrative business deals in future Iraqi oil deals, especially with your guys running the country. Hussein was the only Arab leader so far to oppose the US and survive (GW1), and he got lots of kudos from Arabs in general for his stance. I can see how getting rid of him would strengthen your position in the Middle East both politically and militarily. All this and more! For the mere price of a few sons and daughters. What a bargain.


Say what you want. The fact remains that Saddam was a brutal and murderous dictator who tortured and killed thousands. It seems to me that if it were up to you he would still be reigning terror upon his people, no?
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Tumor

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #132 on: October 10, 2003, 02:31:38 PM »
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Originally posted by rpm371


WASHINGTON (April 24, 2003) - The statement below was issued today by Secretary of Veterans Affairs Anthony J. Principi:

One of the byproducts of the Internet Age is the blinding speed with which rumor becomes accepted "fact" among those willing to believe.  More than a century ago, a wise man wrote, "A lie can get halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on."  Today, lies can rocket around the world before the truth can even find its socks.  Only prompt intervention can squelch rumors before they are widely accepted as truth.

Here`s a rumor that desperately needs squelching -- On the eve of our battle to liberate the Iraqi people, Congress slashed funding to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), the organization I am privileged to lead.  This rumor has the potential to frighten America`s veterans, and to undermine morale among our brave troops in the field.

The rumor has already surfaced on the Internet, in Hollywood, and on the op-ed pages of the venerable New York Times.  Even a member of Congress, in a Chicago Sun-Times op-ed published April 13, wrote of a "$28 billion cut in veterans` benefits and health care."

If any such cut in veterans` benefits were made, veterans and their families would be justifiably concerned.  But there is no truth to any suggestion or assertion that VA`s budget will be "cut" or "slashed" next year.  In fact, funding for veterans programs will increase in fiscal year 2004, probably by record levels.

 President Bush`s fiscal year 2004 budget requests a record $63.6 billion for our nation`s veterans, including a nearly 8-percent increase over the fiscal year 2003 budget for discretionary funding - which mostly pays for VA`s health care system -- and a 32-percent increase in overall funding since fiscal year 2001.  And the Budget Conference report the House and Senate agreed to on April 11 raises the suggested levels of discretionary funding for veterans by an additional $1.8 billion.

This rumor may have been fueled by a parliamentary maneuver that escaped even the most die-hard C-Span viewers.  At about the time the Iraq war began, the House of Representatives passed a resolution requesting House and Senate Appropriations Committee members to reduce most federal agencies` funding, including VA`s, by 1 percent in fiscal year 2004, a reduction they believed could be made up by reducing waste, fraud and abuse at each department.

If that measure had passed, it would have lowered the amount of the record increase in funding President Bush proposed for veterans, but it would not have cut VA`s funding.  Lawmakers, however, quickly recognized the impact upon veterans and exempted VA from the across-the-board reductions.

So, despite rumors they may hear to the contrary, veterans and their families, including our newest generation of veterans, should rest secure in the knowledge that a grateful nation honors their service to America.  These days, the only cuts at VA are to the waiting lists for medical care and the backlog of compensation claims.  While VA can always use more money, the interests of America`s veterans and their families will continue to be protected by Congress, the Department of Veterans Affairs and the President.



Nice try though :rofl
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Offline Udie

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #133 on: October 10, 2003, 02:40:02 PM »
Didn't the demo's teach you anything in 1995?  Remember when they school lunched the repubs?  Don't you remember that if you lower the rate increase percentage that's in fact a cut and that you are trying to starve children and kill your parents.  Sheesh I think you need to go back to the re-education camp.

Offline DmdNexus

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Needs to be said about Bush & Iraq
« Reply #134 on: October 10, 2003, 05:17:59 PM »
LSD.... PCP...

Aberdeen proving grounds, secret chemical and biological experiments on US citizens up into the mid 70s.

Anthrax experiments - to this day.

Nuclear tests in Arizona and New Mexico with military personelle exposed to radition.

Jet pilots order to fly through mushroom clouds.

Bikini Island - sailors told to stand and face the blast.

What do all of these have in common?

The US Governement tested WMD upon its own people.... mostly military personel... in some cases US cities were down wind of the fall out.

Let's not forget CIA assasinations and coups in other countries...

Iran Contra... remember that one? Arms given to terrorists in exchange for hostages..... when was that? 20 years ago... Bush Senior was involved in that fiasco.

How many times has the US Governement lied to the people, lied to Congress when all of these activites were discovered...

Cover ups and punishing whistle blowers

Sure Saddam is evil...

Now what makes us so pure and rightgeous?

Oh  yah... we're the biggest bully in the world.

We talk about democracy and freedom... and international law.

Yet.. when it comes to an international democratic vote and everyone votes against us... we go and invade a 3rd world country that was never an immediate threat to us.

Self protection - hardly.

We say look they have WMD and they've used them on their own people - we must stop this evil..... yet look at our selves... we sold them the weapons... and we too are quilty of using WMD upon our own people.

Now the International Red Cross is calling for us to abide by the Geneva convention in regards to those being detained for 9/11.

Why doesn't Mr. Bush abide by this convention?

We would expect Iran, Iraq, China, and North Korea to abide by it
if our military personel were captured.

A captured enemy combatant is a prisoner of war - are we at war or aren't we? If we are at war then this is war time.

Leaks of national secrets is punishable by death. Who ever leaked the CIA operatives name... should be executed.

Bush was suppose to bring dignity to the White House - he has disgraced America. We've lost credibility with the world. We are blind to our own hypocrisy.

The truth will be told. Murder and violence doesn't make Bush a strong leader. It makes him a stupid leader. Violence is stupid.

The truth will come out about how Bush and his administration is lying to the American people.