Sturmovik

[~Caligula~]

I read in a book once,that was written by 109 pilot that fought in the Hungarian Air Force during the war, that the only way they could kill the Il-2 was killing the gunner first with MGs ,than go under the plane ,and hit the oilcooler.He said ,if they just try to shoot at the IL-2 ,all bullets would bounce off it,the armor was so tough.He finished the war flying 109G-10 the "Fat Gustav"as they called it, so I assume they used 30mm on the Il-2 too,and it`d still bounce off.
Well if Pyro modelled this monster as it was,it`s gonna be a squeak to take it out.
BTW I had the chance to meet the gentleman that wrote that book once, he had about half the size of he`s nose left,coz it burned off one time he got shot down by a mustang.He was shot down I think 3 times by P-51s.They called the summer of `44 the "Mustang season" so many bombraids they had to deal with by the 15th airforce operating from Italy, allways outnumbered.

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[This message has been edited by ~Caligula~ (edited 05-19-2001).]

[Animal]

Yeah I believe the mgs on the 109 would bounce off. but I highly doubt the 30mm would.
and in AH, I predict the IL2 will be MUCH vulnerable than it was in real life.

Not even an IL2 can survive several direct hits from 37mm flaks, hispano attacks, etc.

but still, it will be one of my planes of choice (I hope HTC adds a map that would let big tank battles take place)

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Japaneeze said the same about the corsair, the bullets were bouncing off from a dead six attack.

So, they attacked them with an angle, and no more bullet bouncing. IL2 probably the same, I doubt a good deflection shot would not penetrate those wings.

[GRUNHERZ]

 I think IL2s will be very survivable in AH, their toughness will make it difficult to blow one up quickly and if it gets one of the buff style 12.7mm it could get some surprising air to air kills. Plus it will possibly be a lot easier to yank and bank this big heavy plane in AH than it was in rl. So you can bring those nice 23mm cannon for a lille HO action. Plus it will have the AH bomber outside wiew so it will be difficult to sneak up to one from under as the LW often did.

About the oilcooler a hit to this area would almost always set the IL2 on fire and destroy the plane. In AH oil cooler hits just smoke and encourage you to rtb.

Another succesful tactic the LW discovered in the war was to shoot at some compressed air or fuel bottle in between the pilot and gunners position. This was not protected by the pilots armor, and a hit to this would blow up the plane.

Another succesful attack strategy was to shoot off the tailplanes, as they were very highhly stressed on the IL2, and were not as tough.

One thing im most interested in seeing is how easily the IL2 gunner is killed. These poor guys had practically no armour and suffered horrible casualty levels even bu soviet standards. If we are able o kill the gunner rather quickly as was often case in the war IL2 will become more vulnerable.

As for the Mk108 cannon I have no idea how it will work out. I know LW fighters often loaded up on 20mm AP ammo vs Sturmoviks as the 20mm HE would often bounce of the steel armor and even the slightly elastic plywood covering of the wings, provided that it hit at a flat angle. I believe any of our cannon should be able to penetrate and destroy Il2s surfaces in a hi angle diving attack so our shells impact at 90degress or another high angle. But he MK108 has much much more HE effect than even 20mm minegeschoss HE and was nutorious as an effective fire starter, so it could have succes setting Il2s wooden components on fire, provided this aspect of the DM is adequately represented.

An interesting note about the IL2 is that LW AAA folks came to the conclusion that about 3 MG151/20  needed to succesfully combat IL2s.

Anyway its an interesting plane and I hope it has some of its interesting loadouts represented soon. Plus it be nice if we got one of those Ju-87G with the twin  37mm as a nice complement to this plane.


Now HTC pleeeez hurry up with the usual two weeks!  

[DB603]

S!

 I read the Eastern Front Luftwaffe pilot Helmut Lipfert's (203kills) book.He said that IL-2 required a lot of 20mm if Ya shooted from dead 6,but from below no sweat to bring it down.As they got the 30mm cannon later he said that the IL-2 blew up very easily with it and they were no more formidable...So get on and practise with 30mm.Hispano-men don't bother,U still can do the 1ping kill on it  



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DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34

[Tilt]

 

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Plus it will have the AH bomber outside wiew
 

Will It?

I would have put it down as a pure attack aircraft........

Tilt

[GRUNHERZ]

I suppose it will just like the TBM.

[ra]

The Il-2 engine may be tougher to kill in AH than other planes' engines, but it will still go down easy if you pour your ammo into the wing root.  That part was not armored, and wings come off easy in AH.  There are going to be some disappointed Il-2 drivers when it first comes out.

ra

[Gadfly]

They dont bounce off the wings or the tail.

[Hans]

The armor bathtub that it is built into it (its actually part of the airframe holding the plane together) is strong, but....

....it is STILL an airplane.  Light enough to fly.  It is NOT bullet proof.  The wings and tail section are not armored, neithier is the canopy.

It is hardly a flying tank.  It is simply stronger than most airplanes.

Hans.

[This message has been edited by Hans (edited 05-20-2001).]

[GRUNHERZ]

My only fear is that its modeled according to the sturmovik stereotype of being an indestructable flying "tank", although the plane was tough and actualy incorporated rolled steel plate as its outer skin in some forward fuselage areas it was by no means indestructible. The gunner especially was extremly vulnerable as he pretty much sat out in the open, IIRC a joke among the sturmovik crews was the gunner only served as the pilots supplemental rear armor.
Plus these planes were easy to set on fire by blasting the oilcooler which would then light the wooden parts and destroy the plane. Hartmann said in his book how the fire from the oil-cooler would almost immediately spread back to the tail saurfaces and burn them very quickly.

Its surfaces had some resistance to normal 20mm HE if it hit at a flat angle, but if it hit at higher angles the 20mm penetrated the plywood and would set the wood on fire with some of its incindery properties and damaged the structure by exploding inside. Some of this resitance to 20mm HE was due to the plywoods flexibility and resiliance.

Ive read up more on the MK108 vs russian attack planes, and apparently a single Mk108 shell would rip off a Pe2s wing at the root.
I dont know how tough the Pe2 Bomber is compared to the sturmovik, but I suspect it was a rugged plane in its own right.
From what we know of Mk108 ability vs USAAF heavies I doubt more than a few well aimed 30mm hits should do the sturmovik in, if its toughness is reasonably done.

Whatever the case I wish we can see this and other new planes in 1.07 very soon.

[Karnak]

I agree that it will be more killable than many here seem to think.

About the wings, keep in mind that it did have over built wing spars in order to make the wings more durable.  AFAIK, the tail lacked that feature.

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