GREAT STORY OF A Ta-152H-1 Vs. TEMPEST IN WW2

[F1Bomber]

Widewing

This is certainly true. In the case cited, the Tempest pilots fought stupidly, not exploiting the principle advantages of their fighter. Instead, they engaged under the best possible circumstances for the Ta 152s, which had rather lethargic engine performance at low altitude.

What makes you think my experience is limited to playing flight sims? FYI, I have over 2,300 hours in military (U.S. Navy) aircraft and 332 shipboard traps.

I shoudl really change "you dont have the right" to "you have the freedom of speech to say what you want" but it doesnt make it moral to anounce that the "pilots fought stupidly" when the only information your going on is an after action report. Though you have a higher level of military achievements from myself. Myself being a computer science student and only flying aces high for fun, but i love reading history and talking to wwii vets.

eg.
Its like me saying if you have an accendent or some military action and died. Jumping on the message board and saying that you did your job stupidly, not exploiting the prinicple of safe landing, taking off, ejecting, combat, ect.... This all going on some after action report by the U.S Navy. Wouldnt you like to tell me wrong, but you cannot because your dead.

The whole situation changes once you are in the picture and at the location making the life spliting logic!

P.S.
I dont mean to insult anyone by this post, Widewing has a much greator achievements in the U.S Navy than what i could ever achieve. Just pointing out the lack of thought and feelings given to the pilots family and friends, who payed the greatest price.

[mora]

Reschke implies that their turning ability was somewhat equal to Tempest, not the case in AH.

[davidpt40]

Hey Widewing, what kind of plane did you fly?  What squadron were you in?  What years? Just curious.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by F1Bomber
Widewing

 

 

I shoudl really change "you dont have the right" to "you have the freedom of speech to say what you want" but it doesnt make it moral to anounce that the "pilots fought stupidly" when the only information your going on is an after action report. Though you have a higher level of military achievements from myself. Myself being a computer science student and only flying aces high for fun, but i love reading history and talking to wwii vets.

eg.
Its like me saying if you have an accendent or some military action and died. Jumping on the message board and saying that you did your job stupidly, not exploiting the prinicple of safe landing, taking off, ejecting, combat, ect.... This all going on some after action report by the U.S Navy. Wouldnt you like to tell me wrong, but you cannot because your dead.

The whole situation changes once you are in the picture and at the location making the life spliting logic!

P.S.
I dont mean to insult anyone by this post, Widewing has a much greator achievements in the U.S Navy than what i could ever achieve. Just pointing out the lack of thought and feelings given to the pilots family and friends, who payed the greatest price.

My "achievements" were nothing more than any number of ordinary guys did in the course of doing their duty.

I can certainly appreciate the loss of any man in combat, but let's not get all teary eyed about it. Millions died during WWII. Still millions more survived. That's the risk every man or woman takes when they put on their nation's uniform. We salute the dead, pat the survivors on the back telling them "well done" and wish them a happy life. Then we get on with our own life, thanking God for the sacrifices of those gone before us, and well aware that, but for the grace of God.....

I, for one, don't hold those who died in any higher esteem than the men who stood right alongside them, but lived. Sure, one paid a higher price, but they both put themselves in harm's way. They both took the same risk. It's not whether they live or die that earns respect, just showing up was sufficient for that.

Honor the veterans, both living and dead. Eventually, every one of them will be borne to their resting place under their nation's flag.

My regards,

Widewing

[Batz]

Reschke implies

He did more then "imply" he demonstrated it.  

He flew sturmbocks before moving to the 152. He was shot down 8 different times.

He had 27 confirmed victories, 20 of them four-engined bombers. He stated clearly that

"The Ta152 was my life insurance in the last days of the war."

None of his 152 kills were at high alt. One can make the guess that coming from bloated a8s to the 152 and having survived being shot down 8 times that he had np pushing himself.

If you read about Short and Aufhammer's "fight" neither could get the advantage.

Friend and foe now started a turning match that seemed to last forever. Neither could gain the advantage and after 15 minutes the two pilots broke away and returned to their respective bases - glad to be able to fly home in one piece.

Was Reschke the better pilot? Who knows. But Michell was no FNG

An excellent cricketer and sensitive musician Mitchell had joined the RNZAF in 1942 directly from University where he had been studying engineering. At 20 years of age the young pilot transferred to England where, after training, he started to accumulate flying hours as an instructor and pilot with various Operational Training Units.

By early 1945 Mitchell had over 700 hours to his credit and was converted onto the latest fighter in the RAF inventory - the Hawker Tempest V. The next step was operational flying and he was delighted, when in early March he found that he had been posted to No. 486 (NZ) Squadron based at Volkel in Holland. The squadron was on the front-line and coming into daily contact with a still very efficient Luftwaffe as well as fierce anti-aircraft fire.

By early April the squadron had moved into Germany itself and was using their base at Hopsten to harass the enemy both in the air and on the ground.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by davidpt40
Hey Widewing, what kind of plane did you fly?  What squadron were you in?  What years? Just curious.

I was an enlisted aircrewman. Qualified as a Flight Engineer,  flying Crew Chief and Loadmaster.

I logged most traps aboard a Grumman C-1A (with VR-24 and also assigned to the USS Saratoga). 142 traps flying right seat. I also logged traps in the C-2A and S-3A. Also qualified in US-2B, HU-16 Albatross (crewed last operational flight of a Navy amphibian), C-118, C-131, UH-1N and HH-1K. I managed to log 24.3 hours in the backseat of a TA-4J Skyhawk and a few more in the RIO seat of a VF-31 F-4J Phantom II. Getting rides in jet fighters usually meant trading something. I always had at least one seat on the COD reserved for crew training. When someone from a squadron needed to get ashore, I usually gave them the seat. That earned a lot of gratitude within the air wing, and offers of rides were always forthcoming, and usually shared with my maintenance crew who otherwise would never get that thrill of a cat shot in a Phantom. A lot of paperwork was gun-decked to get everybody into flight physiology/water survival training so they could get ejection seat and swim qualified.

I was fortunate that several pilots taught me vastly more than I was learning flying Cessna 150s and 152s at the local airport. Lt. Cdr. Sid White and Cdr. Vernon Bloss, Captain (later Vice Admiral, Commander NATO Naval Forces) Edward H. Martin all took time to teach a young Petty Officer more than I could learn in twenty years of flying puddle jumpers on weekends.

My regards,

Widewing

[AHGOD]

Originally posted by Widewing
My "achievements" were nothing more than any number of ordinary guys did in the course of doing their duty.

I can certainly appreciate the loss of any man in combat, but let's not get all teary eyed about it. Millions died during WWII. Still millions more survived. That's the risk every man or woman takes when they put on their nation's uniform. We salute the dead, pat the survivors on the back telling them "well done" and wish them a happy life. Then we get on with our own life, thanking God for the sacrifices of those gone before us, and well aware that, but for the grace of God.....

I, for one, don't hold those who died in any higher esteem than the men who stood right alongside them, but lived. Sure, one paid a higher price, but they both put themselves in harm's way. They both took the same risk. It's not whether they live or die that earns respect, just showing up was sufficient for that.

Honor the veterans, both living and dead. Eventually, every one of them will be borne to their resting place under their nation's flag.

My regards,

Widewing

So much respect for you and what you just said theere.  

BTW USAF is better  Gotta go with what you served

[AHGOD]

Originally posted by Batz
He did more then "imply" he demonstrated it.  

He flew sturmbocks before moving to the 152. He was shot down 8 different times.

He had 27 confirmed victories, 20 of them four-engined bombers. He stated clearly that

 

None of his 152 kills were at high alt. One can make the guess that coming from bloated a8s to the 152 and having survived being shot down 8 times that he had np pushing himself.

If you read about Short and Aufhammer's "fight" neither could get the advantage.



Was Reschke the better pilot? Who knows. But Michell was no FNG

Even outnumbered they faired pretty good, some missions were worse then others, but they still had espirit de corps (sp?).

One thing though the germans had higher respect for brit pilots then US pilots.  Brits were not known for shooting chutes.  They had a long lasting chivalry that in a war that lasted that long is truly amazing among combatants.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by AHGOD
So much respect for you and what you just said theere.  

BTW USAF is better  Gotta go with what you served

That's very kind of you. Thanks and a big right back!

Speaking of the USAF, the pilot who gave me my first ride in a Phantom was a USAF exchange pilot flying with VF-31 off of the USS Saratoga. Most people would be surprised at how many USAF pilots carrier qualify and fly tours with Navy squadrons. The exchange program was and is a terrific opportunity for both Air Force and Naval aviators alike.

My regards,

Widewing

[Montezuma]

Originally posted by mora
Reschke implies that their turning ability was somewhat equal to Tempest, not the case in AH.

No, they are pretty close in low speed turning abilities in AH.

[humble]

Originally posted by NOD2000
IMO, I have to dissagree. Again how many people that fly a flight sim like AH have actually flown area combat.... you couldn't think srait, none the less consider ACM. Trust me combat and a "flight sim" are two WAY WAY diffrent things.

I couldn't disagree with you more...training is the single most essential element in any life threatening situation. One of the most valuable types of training available is simulation. Obviously the real world is more complex and real life variables apply but under extreme stress training makes all the difference....as someone whose life has rested on split second decisions more than once I know 1st hand that mental preperation is critical to survival when a 1/2 second or less might cost you your (or someone elses life). Theres a huge difference between KNOWING what to do and DECIDING what to do. widewing summed it up....the poor guy flew a dumb fight...and it cost him his life. He might of had 700 hrs of flight time but he had no combat experience till very late in the war. His opponent had significant combat success (and failure since he got waxed 8 eight times).  I'm not arguing the very real differences between flying in a game and in a life and death scenario.....simply pointing out the very real fact that many here have developed a very solid OOPA reflex that would make them formidable piots in real life.

[davidpt40]

I agree.  Just because its a sim doesn't mean its not important.  The law of diminishing returns comes in to play here.