Plane vs Plane Thread

[mtnman]

Great stuff in this thread.  I can't contribute much, since I am new, but I have a question:

Does anyone have any film of the type of fights that are being discussed in the last few posts (ie, 38 vs zeke, or other similar "BnZ vs TnB" plane)?  I understand the concepts being discussed, but I don't really understand how to execute such tactics in the air. 

Try these threads-

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,272282.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,272543.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,280918.0.html

[Roadblck]

Try these threads-

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,272282.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,272543.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,280918.0.html

Thank you, Mtnman!   

[Bubbajj]

P40E/109F = big trouble for the P40. The F is faster by a wide magin at every alt. The F can out climb the P40 with ease and has a substantially smaller turn radius both with flaps and without. The only thing an F can't do that a P40 can is dive. If you have alt to work with the P40 can be a bugger. The P40 also has combat flaps that it can drop, IIRC, 250 mph. With this you can pull a quick reverse on an F but don't miss, the F holds all the high cards.

[Muzzy]

You can post a matchup now, Bubbajj

[prono]

LA5 vs F4U-1A

[Babalonian]

In a strictly one on one situation the Spits will defeat all of the above except for the 109k4 vs Spit 14.

   You mean in a strictly turn-fight?  If the 109 maintains an E advantage and never commits to blowing it on tight turns, he'll dance circles around the spit.

LA5 vs F4U-1A

LA5 has the advantage in all categories except dive and retaining it's E from the dive.  If you're the LA and the F4U comes in high, try to get away and climb to equal or higher alt, and if that's not possible go defencive and avoid his dives with break turns until he gives up his advantage, then go offencive and expect the F4U to try to dive out and break from the fight.

[WMLute]

  You mean in a strictly turn-fight?  If the 109 maintains an E advantage and never commits to blowing it on tight turns, he'll dance circles around the spit.


LA5 has the advantage in all categories except dive and retaining it's E from the dive.  If you're the LA and the F4U comes in high, try to get away and climb to equal or higher alt, and if that's not possible go defencive and avoid his dives with break turns until he gives up his advantage, then go offencive and expect the F4U to try to dive out and break from the fight.

the 1a is faster otd (ish) and over 10-12k (IIRC)

the 1a will out turn the la5 with flaps

[Roadblck]

I don't have enough experience to comment on most of these, but I've got a match-up I'm curious about:

Spit8 vs A6M5

[StokesAk]

I don't have enough experience to comment on most of these, but I've got a match-up I'm curious about:

Spit8 vs A6M5

The best way to kill an A6M is to have E on it, the spit8 is relatively fast therefore this should be easy.

The spit will BnZ until it gets and angle and take the shot, but if he gets slow with the A6m he is in trouble, as he can't out turn it.

In a rolling scissors the A6m will win, as the same for most other maneuvers.

[Saxman]

the 1a is faster otd (ish) and over 10-12k (IIRC)

the 1a will out turn the la5 with flaps

The 1A's top speed is actually neck-and-neck at WEP with the La-5 up to 5k, at which point the La falls off dramatically. Add a superior rate of roll, as well. Any time I've been in an La-5 (FSO and aggressor practice for same) I have to stomp all over the rudder to get anything approaching the roll rate I'm used to in the Hog out of her. Instantaneous turn even without flaps also feels less responsive in the La-5, particularly in the mid to upper speed range.

The only clean advantages the La-5 has are acceleration and rate of climb.

[Guppy35]

38L vs the Ki84 is no fight, only chance the 38 has is to bring a niki and a zeke along with him and hope his wingmen are good sticks!

Don't kid yourself.  I love fighting Ki-84s in my 38G   Niki's too for that matter!

Turning with Zekes is a different matter though

[ink]

when it comes to fighting I dont think about what the other plane can do, I think about what the other plane IS doing, yes you need to understand every plane's capabilities, to be able to put up a good fight, or to understand what to do when The nme does this or that, to say "this is how you beat plane x with plane y" is a misnomer, it all depends on initial situation, E states,advantages/disadvantages, you are not fighting the plane, you are fighting the pilot controlling the plane.

learning to judge your nme's E-state, is utmost important, understanding the other planes capabilities is also important, to know that when a Zero gets fast it's controls seize up, same with the 109, not with the 51 or LA ECT ECT....

To me the merge is the most important aspect of any fight, this is where you will most likely win or loose the fight, judging what your nme's E-state is before the merge, so you can place yourself in a good firing position.

 

[Muzzy]

Babalonian and Stokes had the last answers so they get to post matchups. (Not that the rules need to be followed...I'm just sayin'...)

Having a lot of fun reading the matchups and answers. 

[Masherbrum]

38L vs the Ki84 is no fight, only chance the 38 has is to bring a niki and a zeke along with him and hope his wingmen are good sticks!

.....and I have no clue why you even posted this.    I could rattle off plenty of 28 sticks that could hand you your own arse before you knew it was gone.   They would not need any help to shoot you down.

[StokesAk]

A20G vs Boston III