Roll tactic(s) help

[RotBaron]

Sorry If I haven't searched the threads with the proper phrasing and this is repetitive. If someone with really good links to video/walkthrough/explanations regarding using roll tactics would post them up I'd really appreciate it. I have watched numerous videos on youtube and other places that claim they illustrate rolling scissors etc. really well only to find that the video leaves me often more confused. Specifically, I'm talking about using the roll of the Fw's. It seems every time I try to perform rolling scissors or a low yo-yo I don't achieve the desired result of overshoot. Treading through all the youtube vids is getting frustrating.

Also, if you have your own AH videos that would work great too, as I now have learned how to use the vid viewer that accompanies the game.

Thanks.

[Sunka]

Rolling scissors is a pretty advanced acm,along with other acm rolls,someone just trying to explain it,or watching videos for a newer player may be hard for you to understand.The best thing for you to do is get with a trainer that can talk you threw the manovers. I'm sure one will get to you but if you ever would like i can work with you ,you can just pm me.
Good Luck.

[Debrody]

Greetings,

a low yo-yo will never help you overshooting your opponent, especially not when he is starting nearly from your six. What i liked to use, break flat shortly, then pull up, and with the same rolling momentum, roll back towards the opponent. Unfortunately, i have deleted all my films so cant show it to you. Anyway, if youre planning to overshoot, you have to be slower than the opponent - quasi pull up while rolling - but beware, this can be used against you.

Also, you mentioned, you are trying this in a 190. You must like a challenge : )
190s turn horribly between 160 and 250mph - from when the flaps retract to the first blackout. So your goal must be to arrive from under the opponent but with E and take a killer snapshot on him in the vertical, while opening the flaps in the same time to be able to continue in a vertical rolling scissors. Your plane is able to handle quite a few aircrafts in this way: ponyes, jugs, typhoons are easy, 38s, jaks can be done if the opponent is a bit lesser skilled than you, but with accuracy and a little bit of luck, even spits might fall into your trap.
In that case if this tactic fails, you still have an other option: dive away, til you reach like 350mph. If the opponent is following closely, try the high speed overshoot, chop the throttle, kick the rudder, roll quickly, burn enough E to make him overshoot and take the snapshot. If the opponent stays loose but still following you, try the break-reverse method - it usually works. In that case if the boogey is just staying high or climbing, just run away, he just doesnt worth your time.

Back to the sustained rolling scissors: in any aircraft, but espcially in the 190s, its all about to keep your flaps opened, pointing your nose up as long as possible, performing accurate hammerhead reversals (the 190 really excels in it). A low yo-yo is always a fail in this aircraft. Dont plant illusions, the 190 cant turn - all it can do is the high speed rolling scissors or the slow speed vertical overshoot.

[titanic3]

Think of it this way, the plane with the better turn will win in a drawn out scissors battle, the plane with the better climb/roll will win in the beginning and will eventually be out of E and is forced to disengage or die.

Ex: Spit8 vs 190A5

The 190 when it still has speed will outroll the Spit and may have more than one chance to get a firing solution, if the 190 fails to kill the Spit in that time, eventually, the rolling scissors will get too slow for the 190 to turn with the Spit. The spit can then just either A) rope the 190/take the fight vertical or B) disengage the scissors while the 190 is slow, do a simple flat turn and get on its 6.

Usually, at that point, the 190s I come across dives for the deck and run (or whatever plane it is). If you're in the 190's situation, you could either force an overshoot (drop throttle, roll), or once you get to the point where you can pull it off, do a tailwhip. Depending on the Spit pilot, sometimes it'll work, sometimes not.

[Debrody]

The spit can win the slow rolling scissors, no need to waste time with doing 2 full circles 
Also, using the tailwhip as a last ditch opportunity is a FAIL. Only use the tailwhip in a controlled form.

[titanic3]

The spit can win the slow rolling scissors, no need to waste time with doing 2 full circles 
Also, using the tailwhip as a last ditch opportunity is a FAIL. Only use the tailwhip in a controlled form.

Meh, it works for me

[RotBaron]

Thanks for the responses. That is a great lot to think about, and also really opens up my eyes to the fact that there was a better and more direct way to ask my question. I think what I should be asking is: I'm in a 190, at 6K, at 290mph, and there is a spit, pony, 38, la, or a yak (my usual culprits) on my 6 what do I do (only one enemy plane)?   Just one example there, but that is the base of the situation, you can alter it in any dimension and at the moment the result is almost always the same for me; shot up.

I guess that points out another thing, I really don't understand much about using roll defensively, and have only gathered that it's the best solution for the AH 190's. Maybe I'm going about all of this in the wrong way(s.)

[titanic3]

Thanks for the responses. That is a great lot to think about, and also really opens up my eyes to the fact that there was a better and more direct way to ask my question. I think what I should be asking is: I'm in a 190, at 6K, at 290mph, and there is a spit, pony, 38, la, or a yak (my usual culprits) on my 6 what do I do (only one enemy plane)?   Just one example there, but that is the base of the situation, you can alter it in any dimension and at the moment the result is almost always the same for me; shot up.

I guess that points out another thing, I really don't understand much about using roll defensively, and have only gathered that it's the best solution for the AH 190's. Maybe I'm going about all of this in the wrong way(s.)

One more detail is needed, how far away is the enemy plane from your 6? This is where SA (situational awareness) comes in. You not only have to Note the distance but also judge their E state based on what maneuver they just did. What time do you play and what's your callsign? I can do a a session in the TA with you if you like.

[ink]

Thanks for the responses. That is a great lot to think about, and also really opens up my eyes to the fact that there was a better and more direct way to ask my question. I think what I should be asking is: I'm in a 190, at 6K, at 290mph, and there is a spit, pony, 38, la, yak (my usual culprits) on my 6 what do I do?   Just one example there, but that is the base of the situation, you can alter it in any dimension and at the moment the result is almost always the same for me; shot up.

I guess that points out another thing, I really don't understand much about using roll defensively, and have only gathered that it's the best solution for the AH 190's. Maybe I'm going about all of this in the wrong way(s.)

first you gotta ask yourself....do you want to kill those baddies on your 6...or run from them?  or would you be OK with at least fighting them and making it difficult for them to kill you.....maybe getting 1 or 2 before you go down.....

[Midway]

Thanks for the responses. That is a great lot to think about, and also really opens up my eyes to the fact that there was a better and more direct way to ask my question. I think what I should be asking is: I'm in a 190, at 6K, at 290mph, and there is a spit, pony, 38, la, or a yak (my usual culprits) on my 6 what do I do (only one enemy plane)?   Just one example there, but that is the base of the situation, you can alter it in any dimension and at the moment the result is almost always the same for me; shot up.

I guess that points out another thing, I really don't understand much about using roll defensively, and have only gathered that it's the best solution for the AH 190's. Maybe I'm going about all of this in the wrong way(s.)

Get down very low, between the trees, use roll to change direction quickly.  Likely half of em will auger behind you, then smile.

[Debrody]

Thanks for the responses. That is a great lot to think about, and also really opens up my eyes to the fact that there was a better and more direct way to ask my question. I think what I should be asking is: I'm in a 190, at 6K, at 290mph, and there is a spit, pony, 38, la, or a yak (my usual culprits) on my 6 what do I do (only one enemy plane)?   Just one example there, but that is the base of the situation, you can alter it in any dimension and at the moment the result is almost always the same for me; shot up.

I guess that points out another thing, I really don't understand much about using roll defensively, and have only gathered that it's the best solution for the AH 190's. Maybe I'm going about all of this in the wrong way(s.)

Listen here.
I have explained in my previous post, what to do. Against a pony, you might have a chance to overshoot in that case if he is very close to you. But to the others, you have no real chance, get speed, if they are following, rape your controls and force that damn overshoot, if they arent, extend, get to an equal position and re-engage.
There are no wonders under the sun, the 190 isnt a turnfighter.

[mthrockmor]

I've spent the last several months almost exclusively in the Fw-190A5 and love it.

In combat all maneuvers are designed to do two things: 1, get the bad guy to over shoot and 2, keep him in front of your guns.

The roll goes with either a low-yoyo or high-yoyo. Yoyos are all about speed. Going low means you point your nose down to pick up speed. Going high means pulling up your nose to drop speed. With the high you have the advantage of 'banking your speed' by converting it to altitude. When you want to cash in that bank deposit you do a low, drop your nose and pick the speed up.

When the bad guy is behind you to get the overshoot you have three options: One, speed differential (you slow down, he speeds past you); two, out turn him; or three, you cause one or both of the first two options by using the roll rate of the plane to get him to either zoom past or turn outside your turn.

If you really want to learn how to use the roll in a fight there are a few birds that are great at it. The king is the Fw-190. The F4U and Spit16 have great roll rates, even the P-47 is pretty good at it. The Zero, P-51, etc are pigs in this area.

A rolling scissors is nothing more then two planes constantly trying to get the overshoot by rolling and turning, then roll back into the bad guy and turn, then roll back into the bad guy and turn. This is where speed differential comes into play, chopping throttle, flaps, even cutting the engine help lower speed so the other guy zooms past you. Some will even drop their landing gear. Watch out for F4Us, they can drop their gear at almost 300knts. It's the best speed brake in the game.

Finding a trainer in the TA would be great. If in the Main Arena and need help ask for it on channel 200. Most sticks will try and help out, the occasional idiot will tell you Alt-f4.

Boo

PS Remember speed is life. And altitude is nothing more then a 'bank for speed' via the low-yoyo.

[Sunka]

Get down very low, between the trees, use roll to change direction quickly.  Likely half of em will auger behind you, then smile.

He is looking for acm,not desperation spit flyer moves,go back to your sand box who. 

[Midway]

He is looking for acm,not desperation spit flyer moves,go back to your sand box who. 

 

[Sunka]

I'm sorry Mid..you made my smile turn upside down now a feel bad.