So, how rugged is the La-7, really?

[Xjazz]

As usual

"Plane Z is strong!”
“BS! Z is weak balsa plane!”
“STFU! Plane X is a tank!”

Etc

Image this
 You are chasing F4U with Bf109G10 (30mm). You gain ONE 30mm hit to the F4U’s wing but no visual damage. WTF?! You are pulling a lead again but then suddenly,  ~2 sec after the first hit, the F4U’s wing gets off.  You would probably just thinking “How strange...” and forget it.

But

What if in same situation you could hit that wing 4-5 times in row until you SEE how the wing is getting off? You surely would think something like “Under modelled LW weapons, over modelled US planes, cheater, biased… mumble mumble …”


U catch my drift?

(edit typo)

[moot]

not really. more appreciable detail =  more accurate estimation of damage.

[Zanth]

I have been reading a book by Stephen Counts that is a collection of fighter pilot stories from WWI - Vietnam.  The other night I read about a P-47 pilot that was jumped by a 190 while on escort duty and was shot up really bad by 30mm and 20mm.

As he was spiralling down to earth he found out he couldn't get the canopy to open to try to bail out.  Once he realized he was trapped in the plane, he somehow got it back under control enough to try to ditch it.  Unfortunately he passed under another FW on the way.  He was too badly shot up to manuver so he basically had to fly straight and level trust his cockpit armor and hope for the best.  The FW saddled up a couple (maybe 3) times and shot the hell out of him (evidently out of cannon rounds).  The P47 would not go down and kept flying!  Finally the FW gave up gave him a wave and went home.   The American pilot was able to return and land that plane at his base.

If I can remember I will have to scan the good parts of that story and post it, but sometimes these planes were really really tough even from dead astern.

[humble]

Originally posted by Widewing
....placed hits are sufficient to kill anything (except it seems a Wildcat ,which makes the La-7 seem like a paper kite in comparison). Lucky shot? You bet, but it still counted.

My regards,

Widewing

Great story....it really highlights the difference in attitude that the killers amongst us sheep have...27 mg rds in a Ki IS out of ammo to me:). I'd guess you hit with almost all 27 rds...if you took the average 10% hit rate that would be 1/2 the clips worth of hits.

I quoted the passage above because its dead on...I got bounced by an F4 in CT night before last (in la-5)...survived the initial 2 passes and got e states about even...worked my way up over him during next couple minutes...engaged him in vertical obliques on 6 passes scoring hits on all 6 as we worked to deck...working throttle (and little bit of flaps to get nose over fast) to "tighten the noose" as we worked down to deck (over water). Committed on last pass to "plane form" shot...walked 20mm from front to back....again....only to have bear (F4 driver)...pull nose up into me and take me apart at 440 or so with 1 burst....was perfectly flown right up to moment I died:)....obviously I left myself open at end...but I'd guess I hit that bird with 3-4 "hit sprites" worth of 20mm on every pass.

[humble]

Originally posted by Zanth
I have been reading a book by Stephen Counts that is a collection of fighter pilot stories from WWI - Vietnam.  The other night I read about a P-47 pilot that was jumped by a 190 while on escort duty and was shot up really bad by 30mm and 20mm.

As he was spiralling down to earth he found out he couldn't get the canopy to open to try to bail out.  Once he realized he was trapped in the plane, he somehow got it back under control enough to try to ditch it.  Unfortunately he passed under another FW on the way.  He was too badly shot up to manuver so he basically had to fly straight and level trust his cockpit armor and hope for the best.  The FW saddled up a couple (maybe 3) times and shot the hell out of him (evidently out of cannon rounds).  The P47 would not go down and kept flying!  Finally the FW gave up gave him a wave and went home.   The American pilot was able to return and land that plane at his base.

If I can remember I will have to scan the good parts of that story and post it, but sometimes these planes were really really tough even from dead astern.

Was Robert Johnson...he'd been reamed out by CO earlier for breaking formation so he stayed put while calling out the inbound attack...split-s'd after pass and Egan Meyer (sp?)...was guy in D-9 that bounced him...followed him (1 of top 190 aces).

[Tilt]

Originally posted by NOD2000
if i remember right part of the La-7 is Balsa..........wtf do you expect its wood

There was no balsa on an La7 it was plywood  pine and birch laminated and bonded with  resin. In fact the outer surfaces were smoothed with resin.

Thickness and number of ply differred at various parts of the AC.

[bj229r]

Zanth, that was R.S. Johnson's plane---his autobio goes into it in some detail---he had over 125 7mm holes on one side, they gave up counting after that, also had 20+ cannon holes in the plane--the 190 guy that used up the last of his ammo on him musta felt sorry for him, as he could see that the guy couldnt get out of the plane--he escorted him thru the ack on coast of France, (so they wouldnt fire), and waved as he left;

but getting back to LA7, if plane is so fediddlein dainty, WHY can this plywood plane endure 550 mph dives? mutter...mutter

[GScholz]

Originally posted by Innominate
All single-engine fighters have sickeningly weak tail sections(it only takes 5 .50 mg rounds to take the tail off of any of them).  The mosquito is notable in that its the only fighter with a tail tough enough to take more than 5-6 .50 rounds.

5 .50 rounds?! That's completely preposterous!

[moot]

bj229r
The planes in Il2FB loose parts much quicker at high speed (dives for ex.), including those that seem very solid in AH.

The AH 110G looses elevators when you just touch 500mph, so I would guess if we had a more detailed aerodynamic damage, like FB or not, the picture of our planeset's behavior in high speed stress would probably be very different.

[Pongo]

Widewing. Did you get credit for the kill?

[Kweassa]

Bj229,  if I remember it correctly, it was Johnson's meeting with Egon Meyer, who was in a Fw190A with the cannons already dry. He pelted the P-47 with only MG17 rounds - all the cannon rounds were received prior to the engagement where Johnson's P-47 was already hit by other enemies, and he was heading home alone... when he met the LW ace Egon Meyer.

 Meyer, in disbilief, after emptying all his 7.7mm rounds into the P-47, flew next to Johnson and saluted him.

[Pepe]

Possible pilot kill?

[jodgi]

the 190 guy that used up the last of his ammo on him musta felt sorry for him, as he could see that the guy couldnt get out of the plane--he escorted him thru the ack on coast of France, (so they wouldnt fire), and waved as he left

Makes me cry...

[bj229r]

Yup, Kweassa thats it-- he had been *****ed out previous mission for breaking formation--this time he stayed tight and got waxed--I have the book laying around here, i'll have to go and read it agin, VERY good reading

[Gixer]

Never found the La7 stronger in any regards compared to majority of fighters.  Like the La5 seems pretty easy to take off a wing or tail with a short burst and that's with four 50's.



...-Gixer
~Hells Angels~