109's kill ratio (all variants from B to K)

[HoHun]

Hi 1K3,

>I have no time to read the WHOLE thread... So what is the real K/D ratio of 109 from 1937 to 1945?

"According to Edward Sims' "The Fighter Pilots", the Luftwaffe claimed about 70000 victories, for the loss of 8500 pilots KIA, 2700 POW and 9100 wounded in action, for a total of ca. 20000 losses. Not knowing the real numbers, we could speculate there were another 20000 pilots who bailed out OK, that we arrive at a 70000:40000 kill ratio for the Luftwaffe, or 1.75:1."

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Puke ver. 2]

Dang!  How many pages is this?  I only read the first two so maybe I'll cover points already covered.

Though it can't be measured in any graph, I think it's very important to not forget the P-51D's bubble canopy and its gunsight.  These are two factors that would be huge in any fight and do provide some level of advantage beyond the more tangible figures on a graph.  As it is, most aircraft shot down never saw their pursuer and in those cases, visibility would've played a huge part in survival more than any turn or climb rate because they never got the chance to even utilize those elements.  

But isn't a comparison of the P-51D and BF-109 really apples and oranges?  I personally think the P-51D wins the comparison hands-down just based on the fact that it could bring the war to the enemy.  You don't win unless you can bring it.  Had the Mustang needed to play homeland defense, I'm sure it could've been modified to be much lighter and nimbler and been very destructive had its role necessitated that.

[Adogg]

Originally posted by Virage
This is a commonly held opinion.  Yet the spitfire was a 1935 design and is not considered outdated at the end of the war.

I think you just hit the nail on the head - a 1st generation 109 was probably outdated and outclassed but a later model would reflect the evolution of the airframe and powerplant - providing the performance improved to keep up with its counter parts it can't really be considered "obsolete". Nothing in the posts here has demonstrated that a late model 109 was absolutely not worth taking up against late model allied fighters. It may not have been bleeding edge but it seems a capable and deadly aircraft none the less.

I would just like to add something. This is the first post on the BB i've seen two people mutually appologize for appearing abrupt or short with someone. Bravo for civility!:aok