Best nonperked planes Top 5

[GScholz]

The F6F is indeed a good fighter, however its lack of speed and climb rate makes it an opponent that you can choose whether to engage or not. To be successful in an F6F you need to be able to surprise your opponent with superior energy and force him to fight you, not really a problem in the MA, but you are vulnerable to the "hunters" in 109G10's, P-51's, 190D9's, La-7's and to some extent the Typhoon as well.

In CV battles the F6F is my ride of choice, but otherwise I fly the 109. The F6F simply isn't in the same class as the "top 5" listed here, the ability to pick and choose fights is a major advantage the F6F lacks.

[Mathman]

Originally posted by artik
Not shure that it can be reached in top 5.
First: Firepower - same like Mustang - if you compare with 190D 109g10 Typhoon or La7 all has at least 2 20mm canons and some even more. This is not good firepower. Speed - the top 5 are fast and has good clim ratio. To be surpiotity plane you must be fast - otherway you are on offencive. You can tell that Spit 9 turns good climbs well, has good firepower and easy to control but all the plance in the list outperfom it on its speed. Like 262 outclassed all prop planes Mustang and Dora outclassed Spit 9 and so F6F-5
By the way one more week in F6F very bad rear view

AND

Ok lets talk about speed - importance. Yes if your talk 1 vs 1 it is better to have good climb (F6F-5 not the best one) and good turn, maybe..... because if good turner and climber on your 6 you can just disengage.... sucessefully .
But when we talking about wingman tactics 2 vs 2 or 4 vs 4 all is defferent. The plane that has suprior speed makes the rules of the game. If someone get on your 6 you just continue to fly stright - and wait untill your wingman will clean you, the slower plane will be at offencive all the time, and the fastest will do what they want. Yes you can land with 5 - 10 kills in Spit 5 untill you get to situation when you can not win all of them. If you in fast plane you just can exit the fight and then return with altitude.

So speed is not minor characteristics but most important one. You might know that Me262 has poor climb raito, very bad acceleration, bad trun ratio - but it is absoultly suprior on other planes why? Speed. If you slow you are allways offenceive. That is whay F6F in not will be one of the top 5 because the rest will outrun it easyly.

If you say so.

[GScholz]

He's right Mathman.

[Furball]

my personal favourite non perk plane would be Spit IX.  Perfect all round plane, only weakness? speed - and its not that slow once you get it off the deck.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by GScholz
He's right Mathman.

No, he isn't right. Adding the 262 to the comparison is creating a strawman argument. The 262 is 100 mph faster than any other fighter. However, the difference between the 190D-9 and the F6F-5 at 20k is less than 20 mph, and the F6F-5 is equal in climb up there.

Why do people constantly state that the F6F-5 is slow? It's faster than a considerable number of the fighters available. If we were talking about the F4F-4, then I would agree that the speed difference might be insurmountable. But, it's not the F4F we are considering, we are talking about the 70 mph faster F6F.

Meeting any of the supposed top 5 Co-E and Co-alt doesn't faze me in the least. God help them if I have some altitude on them... Should they be above me, hey that's fine, I don't mind starting with a perceived disadvantage (I also fly the Ki-61, which climbs slow and can barely break 350 mph, but make a mistake fighting the Ki-61 and you will probably die).

In general, regardless of what you are flying, if you get caught low and slow, you are at risk. The idea is not to be caught in that situation. Hell, this tour I killed a 262 with an A-20 because he underestimated the threat. Ditto for a Ta 152 I ran down with a lowly FM-2 and a Spit14 and Me 163 both popped by my Ki-61 (same sortie). Good SA is everything. Why do you think so many fly the fast fighters, especially new players? Cheap insurance for when their SA isn't very good. Of course, there are riders attached to that policy which states that coverage is not extended to encounters with Hellcats piloted by Mathman or Wadke or Hooligan and a few others listed in the fine print.

My regards,

Widewing

[Raptor]

Originally posted by mos
- famous for compression problems, large airframe makes for a very big target, roll rate suffers at low speeds

Strong[b/] - well put
Weak[b/] - easy solutions... dive flaps, dont let them get your 6 (duh;) ), rudders.
simply the best plane of the war.

[GScholz]

Widewing, the F6F is 45 mph slower than the 190D9 and got 750 fpm less climb rate at 20K. The F6F is a whopping 70 mph slower than the 109G10 and got 1500 fpm less climb rate at 20K. The P-51 is about 40 mph faster at 20K, and even with its mediocre climb rate out climbs the F6F by more than 500 fpm. Even the low-alt La-7 is 30 mph faster and climbs about 300 fpm better at 20K.

These are significant numbers Widewing, and considering that every plane in the "top five" with the possible exception of the Typhoon out accelerates the F6F in level flight the F6F would be a death-trap at 20K facing any of these planes.

Raptor01, the P-38 is better than the F6F at least, however unless AKAK is the pilot it is still a death-trap against the "top five".

[Raptor]

P47 far deserves top 5 over p51 http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=95945]http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=95945

[GScholz]

Btw. Artik, nothing in AH out climbs the 109G10 except the Spit14 and the Me163, and the Spit14 only climbs better below 10K. Above 10K the 109G10 is superior in every aspect of flight except turning, over EVERY plane in AH except Me262 and Me163 (the Ta152 is also better over 25K). I really don't know why the 109G10 isn't perked ... perhaps it is a bit difficult to fly right, but it's so damn good when you get it right.

[GScholz]

No Raptor. The P-51 is faster, climbs better and even turns better at all alts below 20K, Above 20K the P-47 climbs slightly better, but the P-51 is still faster. The numbers simply don't add up for the P-47.

[artik]

Yes really 109g10 rocket plane but very difficult to handle (it is my favorite plane). The wrostest its problem is low compression speed. at 420 kts it is difficult to handleand at 450 knots you loose the control. Second low roll ratio aspecialy at high speeds, lots of planes loose pitch ontrol when outcompressed but still can roll and you able to trim the plane before crash. 109g10 loose roll controll earlyer and it might be very difficult recover it.
Yes I really do not know why it has 21(1) level in AH when Spit 9 has 10 and P51D has 15 really starnge. but leave it nonperked I want to fly this bird

Interesting if G10 so good what is G14 and 109K4?

[GScholz]

You should really trim the 109G10 at all times when in combat, helps greatly with the compression problem which you greatly exaggerated . The 109G10 can still pull blackout turns at 500 mph, and doesn't lock completely up until it reaches 600 mph.

[GScholz]

The G14 is actually an older version 109 with performance somewhere between the G6 and G10. The G10 was a bastardisation of the K4, using older G series 109's and upgrading them to near K4 standard. Our G10 is supposedly the best G10 possible, however the K4 would still be a little bit faster, climb better and would handle better at high speed, especially in roll. A K4 would be a perk 109 for sure.

[GRUNHERZ]

No it would not be a perk, all 109 are teh suck....

Look if you think a better rolling G10 that does some 380mph on the deck and climbs 5,280 fpm is a perk then you are nutz..

Now I would perhaps consider letting the K14 be perked..

[GScholz]

My preeeeeeeeecious!