I had a revalation: 1000 yards = 10 football fields

[Vila]

Yesterday a magic 50 cal hit me at D 1.6 (on my FE in a tail chase) and wounded me.  That sets the record for damage on me from a fighter.

Vila

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by Vila:
Yesterday a magic 50 cal hit me at D 1.6 (on my FE in a tail chase) and wounded me.  That sets the record for damage on me from a fighter.

Vila

WOW!  I haven't heard of that since beta, think it was the net?  Were you low to the ground? (M16 in the area that you were not away of..?)



[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 08-14-2000).]

[Westy]

"Id like to see some films of all the 1k and longer shots people make"

 Well. I can't do it. Best I've ever had was when firing my P47's secondaries from 800 yds (shown on my FE) out, and even then I had my gunsite "X" about three inches ABOVE the flat running bogy in a vain effort to get a ping to make them break left or right. I got a couple of hit sprites.
 Now, DIVING and shooting at another diving bogy I can get out a decent long range shot as gravity isn't working against me as it does in the horizontal.

  -Westy

[eskimo]

Citabria;
And even anther way to look at it:

1000 yards =
1 football field + 3 B-17s (wingtip to wingtip) + 300  LP records + 21 old style VW bugs (bumper to bumper) + 4800 US pennies + 38 - 8' 2X4s + 3 locks of the Panama Canal (side-by-side) + the USN SS-314 Shark (WWII sub) + one of those really tall ancient redwood trees in California (Sequoia sempervirens) + Fishu's ego (est.).

Now that's something that I can visualize!

Eskimo

[Fluf]

RAM - I have an autobiography by a Canuck spit pilot who flew out of Malta, Sicily and Italy.  He shot down a number of 109s (Fs and Gs), and in describing some of these actions he would say things like 'I saw a cannon flash on the 109, which I would normally expect to put it out of action' - one hit from a 20mm somewhere in the forward fuselage and he expected a kill. I don't think AH models planes too soft.

Next, Buzz Beurling regularly made long range kills, including an 800 yard shot on a Macchi 202. He hit it with 5 20mm shells in the cockpit area, and the plane wreck was later found and his report confirmed.

I've said it before, but when you consider how much practice your average AH player gets at air-to-air shooting you've gotta expect people to get very, very good at it, especially considering the safe environment and freedom of action that we have in the MA. No one should be surprised to see what would have been considered spectacular shots in RL happening on a regular basis in AH. A BIG plus is having the range displayed automatically for you. Fighter pilots spent hours studying plane silhouettes designed to train them at estimating ranges from different angles of approach. We don't have to consider that aspect at all.

As for dispersion - the more the shots spread out, the more likely you are to get some hits (like a spreading shotgun pattern). The hits are just not going to be as concentrated and therefore less effective or penetrative. If it only takes a few 20mm hits to put down a 109, then your experience, although a very rare occurance in RL, is to be expected in AH.

Fluf

[wolf37]

hi again:

the only real guns i have a problem with are the m-16's. had three of them shooting at me from 1.5k away, and was still taking minor hits when i could no longer see them.

as for shooting down planes, it does not matter how close or how far away the other guys is, does not matter what i have for guns. the other guy will not hold still or fly straight and level so i can shoot him, so i find it very hard to hit any thing.



------------------
wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS

[g00bd0g]

There are 2 main things to consider here.
#1 All these d1K plus kills are a bunch'a hooey. You all know it's damn hard to hit any sort of evading target at more than d500.
#2 We are firing an amazing amount of lead here. Envision more of a shotgun effect than laser beams. I've seen slow-mo video of rapid fire weapons and I tell ya it literally looks like a WALL of lead. I think the gunnery is damn good, only lag screws it up.

[easymo]

 flakbait. It was 40mm caseings. And they shot the fireing cap out of them. I saw this done.

[bloom25]

I agree with HT here.  It's basically worthless to shoot at anything beyond 1k on your FE.  You just waste too much ammo on shots that do little damage.

That said, the other day I took a radiator killing hit in a p51 from (no joke) 1.8k on my FE from a fighter.  I think I've got a film of it.  The only thing is I don't know if films show hits on your plane.

I'll look at my films and see if I can find it.

EDIT: I FOUND IT!  Sure enough it shows me taking radiator damage at 1.7k on my FE.

Here's a little play by play, since this film is a LONG one.  It starts off with me downing a b17 (Spivey) in one pass.  Very cool looking too.    The rest of the film is pretty much me getting chased all over the sector and avoiding con after con.  Near the end of the film you will see a p47 close on me.  At 1.9k distance you will see me begin some light evasives.  I WAS taking hits at that distance.  At 1.7k I lose my radiator. (In the film you will see ack shooting at the con, but when it actually happened I know our ack was down.  The rooks were heavily vulching the area. Luckly/Unfortunately a friendly m16 managed to get the p47 to break off my tail.  Since I knew I was already dead I attempted to take a N1k with me.    Unfortunately I only hit him once and he got the p51's paper rudder.  That ended the film.  A few things to notice:  The p47 in question was closing very slowly.  I cannot imagine his FE showing a distance of less than 1.5k.  Second, there were no other cons that could have hit me at this particular moment.

Unfortunately I was correct in that films do not show hits on your airplane, but you can tell when I start receiving hits by my evasives.

Here's the zipped film:  (450k or so) Unzipped is just over 550k if anyone wants it as well.

longkill.zip

I would like to hear what the rest of you think.  


------------------
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[This message has been edited by bloom25 (edited 08-15-2000).]

[av8or]

ya know Carlos took out a bicycle frame out at 1000 yds with a 50 cal from a boy carrying guns up with one bullet now if ya fire 200 at 5000 yds. you are bound to hit something no matter how bad a shot you are.

[Suave1]

av8or is right except one thing, he shot the bike out from under the kid . But when the 12 y/o started picking up the weapons that he had spilled he made himself a combatant . Carlos killed him with the next shot, but from a confirmed range of over 2000 meters away !!! And it wasn't with a rifle either, it was a browning M2 machine gun on single shot .

[Mox]

 

Originally posted by av8or:
ya know Carlos took out a bicycle frame out at 1000 yds with a 50 cal from a boy carrying guns up with one bullet now if ya fire 200 at 5000 yds. you are bound to hit something no matter how bad a shot you are.  

I read that book too!  If I remember correctly he aimed directly for the part of the bike where the forks slide into the frame and nailed it in one shot.  

Mox

[Weave]

Hmmmm, I always thought that the range was measured in feet, not yards or meters.
So what your really telling me is: that wasn't 1600 ft when the buff killed you with two pings, it was 1600 meters. Hmmmm?

...Weav

[funked]

YARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!

GRRR

[Maverick]

 

Originally posted by eskimo:
True, but then again, how many of us have gone target shooting with 50 cal. machine guns?  Let alone 2, 6 or 8!

eskimo

Eskimo,

I have done this very thing. The 50 Cal is mounted on the top of a tank as an AA gun and for "light skinned" vehicles. 800 yards is considered a long range for point shooting and that is using a magnifier sight, such as the periscope sight in a M60 class cupula mount, against a non moving target. This is a real training issue for armor crews on a tank range. The technique was to sight in as well as possible, fire a burst (10 - 20 rounds) and see where they impacted. To get a hit you had to put the truck (or whatever target shape was used) in the "beaten zone". It was not uncommon after a full day of firing from a tank company (16 / 17 tanks) to go and look the target over to see it had very few holes in it. (Targets were plywood cutouts to save money. Real steel targets like vehicle hulks were MUCH more satisfying as they gave off hit flashes.)    

I agree that long range hits here are easy. I think it is a playability issue. If no one could hit the target we would all get bored fairly quickly and go play something else.

HTC (et all) is in this both for the fun AND the money. It is a business after all and if they don't make enough to have a reasonable profit we won't HAVE a sim to play.  

Lets just play and not pick too many nits.

Mav



[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 08-15-2000).]