Author Topic: Boroda, check this. (Read 1202 times)

miko2d · « **on:** November 06, 2003, 12:22:29 PM »

Oligarchs R Us

What do you think?

miko

Boroda · « **Reply #1 on:** November 06, 2003, 12:48:43 PM »

Puts everything together pretty fine.

I can only disagree in minor details.

I didn't look through left press for quite a long time now, I only watch "mainstream" TV news and listen to "liberal" "Echo of Moscow" radio (http://echo.msk.ru), and believe me - I didn't see any analysis as good as this one.

Liberals ("rights") scream and shout about "civilian liberties", "economical concequences", etc, same old pro-Western bull-crap pre-paid by the same olygarchs or even US "non-governmental foundations". Conservatives ("lefts") keep mumbling about "henocide of Russian nation", "criminal ptivatization" (ïðèÕâàòèçàöèÿ), "rights of working class" and so on, without any new and fresh ideas. The brightest thing is a quote from Gleb Zheglov: "Thief must be in jail!" (Âîð äîëæåí ñèäåòü â òþðüìå!)

At the same time some economists, as usually completely unheard, said that Yukos is under "attack" for using obvious tax-avoiding schemes. Department of taxes knows all that ways to avoid taxation, and they kindly asked Yukos to stop stealing. They refused, so now it's time to pay...

Next paragraphs are based only on rumours and some unaproved accounts from my aquaintances:

I don't care about Khodorkovsky. What frightens me is that taxmen started to look at medium/small business too. I have heard rumours about tax inspection breaking tax schemes and openly saying "you don't pay enough taxes" to some companies. It can really kill private enterprising. I mean - it may turn into NEP closing in 1925-27. This frightens me. I want to find some reading about how NEP was finished.

It doesn't look like an ordinary "clean-up" before the elections.

fd ski · « **Reply #2 on:** November 06, 2003, 01:08:35 PM »

Interesting article.

Poland is similar on smaller scale.
Sales of national assets to "friends" for dimes and nickeles so that they could be sold overnight at 500% of previous day's price. Rigging every which way....
Both sides steal, right, left, middle.
It's a mess, like no other..

Boroda · « **Reply #3 on:** November 06, 2003, 01:13:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by fd ski
Both sides steal, right, left, middle.

Exactly so.

Our communists have their share of "privatized" property. BTW, Menatep bank was started on party money. Zyuganov, our commie leader, is a big businessman, even owns a hotel at Cuba...

Ripsnort · « **Reply #4 on:** November 06, 2003, 01:52:37 PM »

When you have corrupt communists, then sprinkly alittle capitalism in on top, you create a monster.

fd ski · « **Reply #5 on:** November 06, 2003, 03:18:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
When you have corrupt communists, then sprinkly alittle capitalism in on top, you create a monster.

Had you only had a clue...

Most of the people running the show are carring US passports. There is few inditements for US citizens now over there.

Most common comparison agreed on today is as follows:

During the communist the party stole money from the people. But they were junior league compared to our new masters.
Back then party official would steal enough money to buy a villa, car and maybe go to greece for vacation. Today stealing whole factories is a small time. I think few of our new way "businessmen" made it into Euro "richest 100" list, if i'm not mistaken.

The only difference between the sides is that you were born shafted, and been shafted all your life so you don't know how not being shafted feels.
We've been shafted with a smaller shaft and when the shafters upgraded nobody offrered vasoline.

Sixpence · « **Reply #6 on:** November 06, 2003, 03:27:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by fd ski
The only difference between the sides is that you were born shafted, and been shafted all your life so you don't know how not being shafted feels.
We've been shafted with a smaller shaft and when the shafters upgraded nobody offrered vasoline.

lol, I might have to throw that one in my sig

NUKE · « **Reply #7 on:** November 06, 2003, 07:50:24 PM »

The best thing about the article is that it's all the fault of the US, of course! Who would have guessed?

Quote

The basic story is that the U.S., in conjunction with the Yeltsin administration, decided to create a super-wealthy class of oligarchs who would ruthlessly defend their assets against any attempt to renationalize the economy.

mietla · « **Reply #8 on:** November 06, 2003, 07:57:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by NUKE
The best thing about the article is that it's all the fault of the US, of course!

Sure it is. If it wasn't for te US so intent on winning the Cold war, we would be still shafted by a smaller shaft.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #9 on:** November 06, 2003, 08:39:20 PM »

So what did the oil company president do wrong?

I'm not real familiar with the situation, just curious as to what the story on it is in Russia.

maslo · « **Reply #10 on:** November 07, 2003, 04:21:47 AM »

actualy few days ago i did read, that Bush got 49 mil USD for his next campain from the companies, whitch got contracts for 8 mld. USD (in Iraq) without tender
hehe those democrats probably startedto read same stuff as those eveil communist

in our coutnry we have to laugh about that, coz sutch things happen here all the time and its fun to see that its possible every where

(we trough its only coz our former comunist tards .. we were wrong hehe)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #11 on:** November 07, 2003, 07:17:53 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by fd ski

The only difference between the sides is that you were born shafted, and been shafted all your life so you don't know how not being shafted feels.
We've been shafted with a smaller shaft and when the shafters upgraded nobody offrered vasoline.

LOL! I dunno, lived a pretty good life fd-ski! I'd venture to guess that in the 60's a baseline middle income family in the U.S. would have been considered "Filthy Rich" in Russia.

Boroda · « **Reply #12 on:** November 07, 2003, 12:42:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by fd ski
The only difference between the sides is that you were born shafted, and been shafted all your life so you don't know how not being shafted feels.
We've been shafted with a smaller shaft and when the shafters upgraded nobody offrered vasoline.

Well said...

You explained the reason why people in the West are so proud and happy about what they call "capitalism", and why most of the people from former Socialist countries are so nostalgic about "good old communist times".

I, personaly, don't want to go back to Soviet times, but what we have now is very, very weird.

Freedom is a good thing, but sometimes being afraid of your future is extremely annoying.

Back to the topic: the funniest thing about Yukos is that all that "liberals" admit that Khodorkovsky is a thief, but they want him to be released because it will be better for Big Business. Brainwashing reached a stage when a significant part of population started to think that B. B. is good for them and needs to be saved. Lemmings.

Propaganda rocks. Our new-fangled propaganda definetly learned a lot from Western cold-war brainwashing machine.

miko2d · « **Reply #13 on:** November 07, 2003, 12:52:07 PM »

Capital is only valuable if it is producing what the customers want to buy. So the customer, not the owner is the ultimate souvereign over the capital.

So it is not really important who ends up - or rather starts - owning the capital, as long as free-market competition is not prevented. Capital has a habit of changing hands real fast from those who satisfy the needs of customers less efficientyly to those who do it better.

Obviously, the crooks would try to use the power of the state in order to protect their businesses from market competition, to establish monopoly. This way they do not have to depend on the customers. It's the same socialism, only in disguise.

miko

maslo · « **Reply #14 on:** November 07, 2003, 04:09:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
LOL! I dunno, lived a pretty good life fd-ski! I'd venture to guess that in the 60's a baseline middle income family in the U.S. would have been considered "Filthy Rich" in Russia.

baaaa but you had no Vodka for a free

lol they had so bad times in CCCP these times.... coz al other countries of Soviet block did support them .... the meaning of term suppor in this case mean, to send them money and all valuable things as gift ..... viva or mother russia .

hehe ...