Author Topic: Pro lifers.... does it bother you..  (Read 1240 times)

Offline SOB

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Pro lifers.... does it bother you..
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2003, 02:26:39 PM »
Apathy...I've only had one friend go to a planned parenthood clinic, in '93 in Salem.  She went in afraid not really wanting to have an abortion, but definitely not wanting to have a baby.  She got information on abortion, adoption and pregnancy.  She did end up getting an abortion.
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2003, 02:36:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Sob
 Thanks for the info.

 MT
 I still see it as them lying.  Aborting a late term child should ONLY be done when the life of the mother is at risk. Give me one good reason why it can not be decided in the first 6 months?


Your feelings on the matter are irrelevent as to whether they lied. I think it is pretty clear that the Mothers LIFE must be in danger, not just her health. ... for example:

What if continuing with the gestation would cause a stroke, or other permanently dibilitating harm to the Mother.  The PBA would in that case be illegal, as the Life of the Mother is not at risk.

Offline mrblack

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« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2003, 02:59:18 PM »
The creation of life is that by God.
Only the arrogance that of man is in the taking of lives.

Offline fd ski

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« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2003, 03:14:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mrblack
The creation of life is that by God.
Only the arrogance that of man is in the taking of lives.


Damn, i gotta go home and talk to my wife. Who is that God fellow you're refering to ? I'll break his knees !!!!

Offline mrblack

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« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2003, 03:27:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fd ski
Damn, i gotta go home and talk to my wife. Who is that God fellow you're refering to ? I'll break his knees !!!!



Check the closet:rofl

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2003, 03:48:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mrblack
The creation of life is that by God.
Only the arrogance that of man is in the taking of lives.


I gotta start saving this stuff.

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2003, 03:54:25 PM »
MT so would you be ok with it if it said the mothers Health?

I am not kinda torn, I see what you mean, and can see how that can be bad.....

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2003, 04:12:26 PM »
I'm not OK with it because it is unnecessary. This type of abortion is admittedly horrible. It is also so rare as to be almost nonexistant, especially when counting possible LIVE births.

This law is just political capital for GWB in the fall. He just limited a doctor's possible choices and a woman's possible choices for an estimated 4 million votes.

Offline capt. apathy

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« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2003, 04:35:10 PM »
so I have a medical question if anybody out here knows the awnser (please no guesses).

are there any known (physical) medical situations, that would require a late term PBA, to prevent the mother from developing a cronic debilitating condition?

is the pro-death lobby really conscerned about health issues or just trying to keep anything from hampering their death-mill and possably making them learn to practice real medicine

if the 'life threatening' clause would have said 'cause health issues', it would be bussiness as ussual, as the woman needed the procedure to prevent stretch-marks and saggy breasts.

  no matter how distasteful I find abortion I don't really think it should be completely ilegle.  mainly I think if a dr decides it's necissary then it's between the patient and the dr.  (a real dr, one who practices medicen to heal people and would ocasionally find it neccisary to do an abortion for medical reasons,  not a butcher in a death-mill)

the thing I have real trouble with is that while the death-lobby ponie out these examples of 'what-if'  and 'this poor woman victimised by the law',  they really put most of their real life work into abortions of convienence.

 what percentage of abortions are for a real medical need?  I serriously doubt it's a signifigant percentage, and if that was what the issue was about there would be a lot less arguing.

women are always painted as a victim by the pro-abortion group.  they talk about women who's lifes, or health is endangered,  they talk about the girl who dies in a pre-'roe v wade' back alley abortion.  and they use these as examples to why we need abortion legal.

the fact is that virtually nobody(nobody commonly thought of as sane) wants a mother to be forced to carry a baby to term that would be killed or seriously disabled because of it.

abortion should be a last resort sort of thing not an alternative form of birth control.  

but making abortion illegal isn't the whole answer either.  if you want women to cary their children to term they have to at least think they have some hope of suporting the kid.

an interesting statistic I read last week (off msnbc, not sure of the date or the address though), was that from 90-99 the teenage abortion rate dropped 39%,  the teanage pregnancy rate dropped also, as well as the overall abortion rate (but I cant remember the %'s for those).

it lleads me to believe that just saying "abortion is wrong and we wont have it here", then putting it out of your mind and moving on isn't the answer.

I don't recall any major changes in abortion law in that time frame.  what I do see is that near the start of that time-frame just about every last holdout had finally come to grips with the fact that aids wasn't just killing junkies and studmuffins.

we admitted that teenagers have sex.  and worse yet, probably even our teenager is going to have sex.  we figured out that we shoulod warn them of the honest dangers.  we allowed discussion that went beyond "don't" to "don't, but if you do..."

and the pregnancy rate went down,  and with the economy improving at that time the percentage of those who chose abortion in responce to a pregnancy went down dramaticly.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2003, 04:41:50 PM »
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Dr. William F. Harrison, a diplomate of the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology. 2 He wrote that "approximately 1 in 2000 fetuses develop hydrocephalus while in the womb." About 5000 fetuses develop hydrocephalus each year in the U.S. This is not usually discovered until late in the second trimester ............................. ............................. ............ some cases are much more serious. "It is not unusual for the fetal head to be as large as 50 centimeters (nearly 20 inches) in diameter and may contain...close to two gallons of cerebrospinal fluid." In comparison, the average adult skull is about 7 to 8 inches in diameter. A fetus with severe hydrocephalus is alive, but as a newborn cannot live for long; it cannot achieve consciousness. The physician may elect to perform a D&X by draining off the fluid from the brain area, collapsing the fetal skull and withdrawing the dead fetus.  


There's a case that doesn't involve the Mother's life.

Offline capt. apathy

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« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2003, 04:50:49 PM »
I thikn it could be sucessfully argued that a child with a 20" head would signifigantly endanger a mothers life.

and this combined with the fetus not being viable, and unable to acheave consciousness would make it a safe bet that nobody would be prosecuted.

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2003, 05:11:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mrblack
The creation of life is that by God.


Maybe with the virgin Mary, but here on earth it's two people doing the deed.
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline BigGun

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« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2003, 06:03:57 PM »
What? Organizations lying to further a political objective? Imagine that. The HORROR of it!!!!

Offline ra

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« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2003, 06:17:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
What if continuing with the gestation would cause a stroke, or other permanently dibilitating harm to the Mother.  The PBA would in that case be illegal, as the Life of the Mother is not at risk.

A stroke is life threatening, so if the mother had a condition which put her at risk for a stroke if the pregnancy were continued the  doctor would be free to recommend an abortion.  

As far as debilitating harm, all pregnancies carry the risk of debilitating harm, that's just the way it is.

In any event, the only reason I can imagine for aborting a fetus in the 3rd trimester would be if the pregnancy threatened the mother's life and she was too weak to handle a C-section.

A C-section would remove the baby without deliberately killing it.  It may die anyway, but the medical profession is supposed to try to preserve life.  Late term abortions were invented to get rid of unwanted babies, not to preserve life, not even the mother's.  They just want the mother to live long enough to pay for the procedure.

ra

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2003, 11:30:25 PM »
yes it bothers me.