Author Topic: Hack blasts the army reserve  (Read 2435 times)

Offline Charon

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Hack blasts the army reserve
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2003, 02:58:33 PM »
Nuke, where heroism and patriotism are concerned you wouldn’t be a pimple on Hackworth’s ass. As usual, you have a very strong opinion backed up by hot air. His “desertion” was leaving one of the panic stricken, fleeing units in the early days of the Korean War (one of the lowest points in US Army history) to return to the fight. The Army didn’t seem to mind -- they let him form a Raider unit that went behind enemy lines to capture prisoners and take out key, point objectives. He was the youngest battlefield commissioned officer in the conflict.

As a LTC in Vietnam he was one of the few officers of his rank to actually come down out of the helicopter and lead from the front. He cleaned all the REMF “Ice Cream Party” crap out of his area, established fighting spirit in a formerly sloppy unit, and fought the VC with VC tactics. He wrote the US Army primer on Guerilla tactics (developed with help from the Austrailians, who he considered to be the best jungle fighters in the theater).

He gave up his career near the end of the Vietnam war by speaking out publicly against how the war was being conducted. He saw numerous deficiencies in the leadership structure. Officers with limited field command experience in combat branches (or none) taking over short term commands to get points for promotion and costing lives. Trying to fight a European Cold war style battle using European tactics in the jungles of Vietnam. The one year rotation policy that diluted combat experience. The “Head Count” crap that accomplished nothing strategically and encouraged dishonesty -- numerous areas that were costing lives with no gain. He decided to tell it like it was and hope it led to change.

Some dislike his current stand on the War in Iraq, but I doubt he’s losing any sleep over it. Hackworth was one of the early voices that saw the connection between the Project for the New American Century’s pie in the sky think tank concept for remaking the whole Middle East starting with Iraq (as promoted by senior advisors and PNAC alum Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feife, etc.) and where these advisors were leading Bush's policy. He determined that the Democracy Domino effect came with a whole lot of questionable assumptions and long term problems, and had nothing to do with the public reasons (including WMD) used to sell the war to the American people. On a practical level, once operations began he questioned the amount of troops committed, which he correctly noted were only adequate for the assault itself and not for pacification and security.

Of course, those who disagree with him are free to follow that newly established form of patriotism called character assassination so that they can simply discount what he has to say out of hand instead of debate the points on their merit. And, there's always Ollie North if you don't like what a former warrior like Hackworth has to say.

This sums up his career [NOTE: each "Oak Leaf Cluster" represents an award of that medal. for example, he has 9 Silver Stars and 7 Bronze Stars with V device]

Quote
ENTITLEMENTS OF COL. DAVID H. HACKWORTH
(U.S. ARMY, RETIRED)
AWARDS & DECORATIONS
COLONEL DAVID H. HACKWORTH
(U.S. ARMY, RETIRED)


Individual Decorations & Service Medals:
- Distinguished Service Cross (with one Oak Leaf Cluster)
- Silver Star (with nine Oak Leaf Clusters)
- Legion of Merit (with three Oak Leaf Clusters)
- Distinguished Flying Cross
- Bronze Star Medal (with "V" Device & seven Oak Leaf Clusters)(Seven of the awards for heroism)
- Purple Heart (with seven Oak Leaf Clusters)
- Air Medal (with "V" Device & Numeral 34)(One for heroism and 33 for aerial achievement)
- Army Commendation Medal (w/ "V" Device & 3 Oak Leaf Clusters)
- Good Conduct Medal
- World War II Victory Medal
- Army of Occupation Medal (with Germany and Japan Clasps)
- National Defense Service Medal (with one Bronze Service Star)
- Korean Service Medal (with Service Stars for eight campaigns)
- Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal
- Vietnam Service Medal (2 Silver Service Stars = 10 campaigns)
- Armed Forces Reserve Medal

Unit Awards:
- Presidential Unit Citation (with one Oak Leaf Cluster)
- Valorous Unit Award (with one Oak Leaf Cluster)
- Meritorious Unit Commendation

Badges & Tabs:
- Combat Infantryman Badge (w/ one Star; representing 2 awards)
- Master Parachutist Badge
- Army General Staff Identification Badge

Foreign Awards:
- United Nations Service Medal (Korea)
- Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal with Device (1960)
- Vietnam Cross of Gallantry (with two Gold Stars)
- Vietnam Cross of Gallantry (with two Silver Stars)
- Vietnam Armed Forces Honor Medal (1st Class)
- Vietnam Staff Service Medal (1st Class)
- Vietnam Army Distinguished Service Order, 2d Class
- Vietnam Parachutist Badge (Master Level)
- Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation
- Republic of Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation
- Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross Unit Citation (with three Palm oak leaf clusters)
- Republic of Vietnam Civil Actions Honor Medal, First Class Unit Citation (with one Palm oak leaf cluster)

World War II Merchant Marine Awards:
- Pacific War Zone Bar
- Victory Medal

He's on record as saying the only one that means anything is the CIB.



Charon
« Last Edit: November 08, 2003, 04:18:58 PM by Charon »

Offline Charon

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Hack blasts the army reserve
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2003, 03:51:37 PM »
I spent seven years in the USAR 1985-1992 as a Cavalry Scout instructor (19D H 30) with 3/85th Div Tng. I saw both good and bad during my service. My unit, of course was good :) Actually it was.

Our LTC for much of that time was a Vietnam LRRP who got a battlefield commission. A fantastic leader. He would, on occasion, borrow an E-6 uniform and have a few cocktails with his senior NCOs in the rocker club at Ft. McCoy. My peers were dedicated and motivated. We had a Regular Army mission with RA evaluators so we had to be on top of our game. Basically, we would drop into Fort Knox and relieve a unit’s Drill Sergeants and instructors for two weeks in the middle of a regular training cycle. I served with a number of ex Vietnam era troopers (one Silver Star, one Bronze with V), ex marines and generally squared away individuals.  We even had a Captain who was an MD, but kept it quite so that he could stay in Cavalry. We did have some loads, but not that many and we put them in safe places. For example, there were several E-7s that drove buses, etc. during summer camp.

It was an interesting unit as well. Since we were all cadre, we really had few privates (they would be the trainees when active). It was not uncommon to have E-5s doing KP, but at the same time there was a lot of integration between officers and NCOs of all ranks that made for a tighter, more motivational atmosphere. Not buddy-buddy so much (except with the NCOs of course), but mutual respect.

However, there were a lot of sloppy units also. As I recall, we were the only battalion in our brigade allowed to do a vertical displacement with a RA unit for much of my time in the unit. We also took part in an experiment at Fort Hood around 1988 that was educational to say the least. This involved a Basic Training/AIT (actually OSUT) Squadron that was fully trained, 2 weeks at a time, by reserve units. We arrived late in the AIT phase to find some undisciplined, sloppy troops. We went trough them like a hurricane, sweeping all the porn and junk food from the barracks, locking them up and driving them hard. For example, the MD captain who was a short guy with strong arms, dropped them one day at PT for about 300 push up as I recall.

I got an Army Achievement medal for locking up one private who actually mouthed off to me when I was starting a class on estimate range (I was telling the class to get situated and as he sat down I think I heard him say “carry on”). I tore into him immediately, the DI took over immediately and took him outside to the leaning rest, and the class proceeded in an alert and attentive manner. A RA evaluator told our LTC that I could have been the last Troop’s First Sergeant (which helped our unit evaluation and got me my little ribbon). Now, this is not a reflection on Charon, bad-assed NCO -- nothing in my behavior was extraordinary compared the basic training environment I personally experienced as a trainee. Rather, it was a reflection as to how poor the discipline and training environment was from the units that preceded us. I only hope the unit that followed helped keep them squared away. I also had a nervous private almost roll a track on me at the driving range, and the road march from a hell in a track still painted from "Reforger 84" but that’s another story ;)

Charon
« Last Edit: November 08, 2003, 04:11:02 PM by Charon »

Offline Gunslinger

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Hack blasts the army reserve
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2003, 04:15:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
David Hackworth is the most decorated living U.S. soldier.  I have two of his books sitting on the shelf next to me right now.

He actually deserted his unit in 1950something because they were sub-standard in combat.  Went from deserter to most decorated living soldier (and being a colonel after starting out as private).  I believe he knows whats hes talking about.


NUKE,

would you call somone a traitor if they "deserted" a medical unit they were getting treatment at to go back to the front and fight with there buddies.  Many people did things like that in the korean war.  Lots of times people would get seperated from there units and another one would just take you in.  I think your missing the point about this statement and just goin high and to the right.

about his books, I read "hazardous duty" when I was on active duty and I couldnt believe some of the things I read and how true they were.  It was a GREAT READ!

Offline NUKE

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Hack blasts the army reserve
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2003, 06:58:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
NUKE,

would you call somone a traitor if they "deserted" a medical unit they were getting treatment at to go back to the front and fight with there buddies.  


I never called the guy a traitor.

 In case you guys didn't notice, I was posting in response to davidpt40's assinine idea that it's okay  to desert your unit if YOU decide they are substandard.

Davidpt40 was bragging about the guy and pointed out that he deserted his guys because they were "substandard". I mearly pointed out how completely stupid his point was.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2003, 07:02:41 PM by NUKE »

Offline Ripsnort

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Hack blasts the army reserve
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2003, 07:15:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
He as in Hackworth?  

I dont know much about him, I see he is long time combat vet, but does he have some axe to grind with the army in general after he left?


Your asking LDV for a reply? He's a drive by'er. His views are clear as Tomato soup.

Offline lord dolf vader

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Hack blasts the army reserve
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2003, 01:18:46 AM »
ripsnort i was talkin about what bohdi said.

 i dont respond because there is no point you dont listen to anyone only instagate and ruthlessly attack thus i figgure beating on a mental masochist (like you) is sickly pleasurable to you that is not my thing, have fun in  your petty little hate filled world leave me out of it.

please please ignore list me i got no time to hate you.

Offline Gunslinger

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Hack blasts the army reserve
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2003, 02:18:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
I never called the guy a traitor.

 In case you guys didn't notice, I was posting in response to davidpt40's assinine idea that it's okay  to desert your unit if YOU decide they are substandard.

Davidpt40 was bragging about the guy and pointed out that he deserted his guys because they were "substandard". I mearly pointed out how completely stupid his point was.


Understood....but would you stick around a bunch of idiots if you KNEW they were gonna get you killed.  If you KNEW the commander had no back bone and hid in the first hole he could find when the bullets started flying.  

I think this is actually a good point that the first human reaction in this case would be to run.  The fact that he left his unit to go fight with another is in fact "desertion" but iin my eye is not a cowardice desertion.  If I'm a Private and I think these guys are gonna get me killed cause there idiots i'd probably run too.  I think it takes balls though to go find another unit and fight with them.  

I've heard some bad storys from korea.  Its not a wonder that that area is still considered a "combat zone".  No formal truce was ever signed between the north and the south, the only thing that keeps the bullits from flying is a cease fire.  In that war there was alot of hand to hand combat and alot of incidents were soldiers saw way more chinese charging them then they had bullets.  Just my opinion!

Offline Bodhi

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Hack blasts the army reserve
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2003, 09:49:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
ripsnort i was talkin about what bohdi said.



LDV, I actually am well aware, just had too put in my .02 in regards to the suggestion desertion is ok.
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline lord dolf vader

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Hack blasts the army reserve
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2003, 11:58:44 AM »
i stand corrected. sorry bodhi i agree