Radar and its place in AH

[Zigrat]

Well, I have talked to hitech about this in the past but he was busy and didnt give a real clear answer so I figured I would bring it up here.

My ideas:

Well, I really don't like the bar radar. It lets you know what is going on on the other side of the map too much, and pretty much eliminated the "fog of war": an essential part of wwar strategy. However, I *do* understand the gameplay need for people to "find the fight" and such so I don't think we should get rid of radar completely. I think keeping the radar "dots" when within 15 miles of a enemy airbbase would definitely give enough of an ideaof "where the fight is" without totally destroying the fog of war. friendly contacts would still be plotted no matter their location on the map, and a possibility would be to have enemy contacts plotted no matter where they were as long as they were within 5 miles of a friendly.

But, what if we just got rid of the sector bars? Right now, when a enemy strike launches from within their own territory, the enemy immediately knows it coming. Is this fair? Not really.

Also, I have a LOT of fun doing low level strikes, dambusting with lancs, etcera. But the sector bar broadcasts your position and pretty much negates the usefulness of this very fun type of tactic. Armor presence is similarly broadcast.

Of course, without sector bars, a tank assault on an airfield might go totally unnoticed, which could not be good either. So, what if ehenever a airbase that had not been attacked for the previous 15 minutes took damage, it broadcast a system message with a warning siren like "airfield 15 is under attack".Those of you who ever played warcraft 2 in days past know what i mean, I am sure you remember the shrill orc pesant voice yelling "we're being attacked!"

What do I think this will do? Well, it will make low level attacks mmuch more fun and viable. You give up alot by flying NOE, you are vulnerable to any dweeb above you with alt. It would be nice if tehre was something to be gained by it  

[This message has been edited by Zigrat (edited 09-25-2000).]

[Exile]

I really liked the way AirWarrior did it. Granted they had sector bars of a sort and the dots even gave aircraft type I think, but what I liked was that the HQ for each country would broadcast a message about approaching enemy just as Zig suggested above. This would add a certain level of immersion in that the broadcasts would be somewhat like it must have been in real life. Knock out radar and tower at a field and no more reports are coming into HQ from that area.

[Jigster]

Long as we get a .squelch HQ command.

<-- Remembers those days well.

- Jig

[Tac]

The answer to the radar problem is simple:

Bar radar only for sectors ADJACENT to a friendly airfield (and airfield of course);

Dot radar ONLY in sector where friendly airfield is.

No radar Bar or dot shown for planes flying below 500ft (NOE)


How does this sound?

[Citabria]

the best experience and immersion would be to limit radar and sector bars to only apear while in tower and disable the bars and radar for ground movement and low flying aircraft (both rely on stealth for any chance of success against the unlimited respawning enemy)

it was always a lot of fun to play air traffic controller and vector fighters in to a bandit in WB.

I've found that in the rare times that when both my own country and the country im fighting against has  HQ down for 2.5 hrs that the fights are much more enjoyable and unpredictable because it is unkown what is beyond the horizon.

[Zigrat]

Tac's suggestion would be ok to try too.

[Pongo]

Not that I dont think this is an idea of merit. But since we are talking realism. Wouldnt alot of low level ack and hazards have to be added to AH to make it a risk to fly below radar? Air sickness for the troops?
Just thinking that flying on the deck in AH is super easy. Maybe your icon disapears from the map and it does not track you when you go NOE. Then you would have to navigate. and fly NOE. No f3 views on NOE flights..
Just thinking that it is easy to swing too far in the other direction.

[Hangtime]

Being painfully honest about it (and entirely stupid), I've seen all the radar schemes used buy AW and WB.. I like this one the best.

Being a cranky; nearly blind old fart, I've come to rely on radar as one very important tool in SA.

And I would not want to see the stuff in my cage moved yet again. The new 'I can't hit dick' gunnery model is pennance enuff; thanks.

I must however say that I find the RADAR COVERAGE near HQ's laughable. I mean, it is the countrys HQ.. complete with a radar factory and yet it has no functional radar itself. THAT should be fixed.  

(puts on flame suit)

Hang

[hblair]

I used to have a blast in the WB HA doing what cit is talking about. No radar in planes and no sector bars would be great to me. Although I know that isn't where HT wants to go with the game. Hang, you crack me up...

 

Being a cranky; nearly blind old fart, I've come to rely on radar as one very important tool in SA. And I would not want to see the stuff in my cage moved yet again.

Good stuff there.  

[Nash]

Cool ideas Zig.

I'm pretty much about rollin' with the punches, no matter what systems are in place. So I can live with full dar, or zero dar.. whatever. Take the assigned gear and get on with the job etc.

For what it's worth though... I do seem to enjoy my time in the MA more when I'm able to call up the map and see those little dot clusters. When dar is out, and I have to type in .move ## and .move ## to get a sense of where I'm likely to find a somethin' to tangle with, I enjoy my time less.

Yah, it's kinda dweebish .... but there it is. I get my realism kicks flyin' in the weekend events.

Erhm... that being said... Zig - your post dealt with different nuances of radar which I think have merit and I'd gladly give them a go. But... I gotta say that I have no real qualms with how dar is implemented now.

[Ping]

 We can be prety sure that we will never see it leave the MA. Why not write a scenario and implement it with no DAR or inflight map?
 Strikes are to be made with navigating skills only   I'm pretty sure that I would be one of those hitting the wrong field.  

 Ping the skilless

[Ripsnort]

I'm actually leaning towards Hangtime now that the OST and the Lanc (capable of downing the HQ,thus radar, in 2 sorties)have been added...you all asked for less dar, most of us get it now, I would venture to say that our radar is down 1/3 to 1/2 the time now.  So, HT HAS fixed it, with strategy.

[Yellojkt]

  I think that the idea with the radar only active in the tower would be fine. You would have Fighter patrols being led by someone in the tower. Three or four fighter in formation w/DT flying a 100 ml radius looking for enemy attacks can radio back to ground to let them know a certain base is under threat of an attack or is under attack, so that country or squad can take action to protect. I think it would be fun to try it for one or two days and see if people can get use to the change. I think it would make the game more intresting to play,and more realistic.
  We can keep debating it forever on the boards,we should just give it a try and see how it works  

------------------
Yellojkt
-XO- Night Hawks

[Zigrat]

I am not gonna flame, I think that everyone's opinions are valid  

However, I would like to see (#1 importance) is that sector bars happen only in sectors in which you have a V or a A base. IE why should you know what is happening 200 miles deep within enemy territory?

Yes, We can kill DAR, but that's kinda mean, and if you hadn't noticed rip, if you are ever fighting against overwhelming numbers, the easiest and best way to reduce other side's #s is kill dar, many people llog if they dont have their awacs  

Anyways, i like seeing the little "dots on dar" and everythgin, but i just question the ability to see a strike coming before it enters your territory. Once in your territory (in the same sector or within 15 miles) of a base, then im all for it.

[Ripsnort]

Zig, historically, the Germans could 'see' a raid forming up over England, they knew in advance when a strike was coming, they just didn't know 'where' the strike was going to occur...