190 cockpit bar?

[StSanta]

Been looking at pictures online of the 190. None of the ones I've seen has that quite large very obstructive "bar" that is visible when you look up and behind/up.

Anyone got a pic of this? In AH it is very obtrusive and block yer view quite much. Was it that big in real life, or was it there at all?

Thanks in advance.


Oops wrong forum, sorry.
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"

[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 09-26-2000).]

[Creamo]

"The Great Book of WWII Airplanes" has a clear picture of the bar, but I only notice it on the FW190-8. No other pictures clearly show it or it actually isn't there on other variants.

I can scan it in later, but removed my SCSI scanner card for a LAN party last night.

If anyone else has that awesome book, its there.

-edit-
The aft bar on the canopy seems to be the aerial attachment. You can even see a small retract wheel which would wind up the aerial when the canopy slides back and forth.

[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 09-26-2000).]

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

The bar is there on all Fw190 models from begining to end. On the standard canopy it goes about half way across the canopy from the front, on the blown canopy as seen on some A8s and Doras it goes the whole way acrosss the clear section of the canopy. This bar was in fact a piano hinge which prevented cracking of the plexiglass while the canopy slid back, as the sliding rails were not parralel.   They matched the V of the fuselage as seen from the top.

thanks GRUNHERZ

[StSanta]

Ahh ok, ty.

It DOES seem awfully big though.

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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"

[Ripsnort]

It was intentionally made big to contain the ego's of those who fly it!  

[funked]

Grunherz got it 100% correct.  The size looks right to me.

[Vulcan]

Theres a bar in the 190?

Damn I been storing my drinks between my legs all this time!

[Hangtime]

No glenfiddich tho.  

[StSanta]

Well, allow me to elaborate.

The problem is with the way a relatively unobtrusive "rail" is presented in the 3D cockpit. Due to the math involved, it expandsat it gets closer to you, and get smaller as you move away.

Now, from outside, it looks good:
 

The problem is when you go inside. To me, it obscures far more than it would in real life, due to the limitations of 3d graphics:
 

Note especially how large it is close to you; in real life, you wouldn't experience this effect.

Gets worse when you look up:
 

and even when you check six, you'll find it very much in the way:
 

As you'll notice, it's placed at a really awkward place and screws around with your visibility and therefore SA out of proportion to how big it really is. With our two eyes, in RL we'd have no problem looking "around" it. We wouldn't suffer much from it at all.

But due to the 3d thingy involved, it *really* gets in the way; use up view for lag pursuit; enemy con blocked by bar. Check six; enemy con blocked by bar.

You can to some extent alleviate a small bit of the problem by moving left and right. Still, the bar blocks proportionally too much. And you cannot move left and right for the front shot unless you do some modifications to your gunsight. I've xperimented with it and dinnae like it at all.

Also, moving left and right gives you an uneven field ov view - that is more of the left side at the expense of the right for example.

I don't know how to solve the problem. Outside view clearly shows HTC got it right. Inside view is basically the same but from a different perspective, with this cool 3d cockpit (kudos for that btw, great stuff).

But I would like to see *something* done. 190 drivers are being unjustly punished for a small detail, I think. There should be some visibility penalty for the rail, but what we have now is far too much.

Sorry for the big pics, and thanks for your patience.


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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"

[Vermillion]

Actually this is a problem with any of the aircraft with numerous canopy rails, for instance the P-38 and the La5FN come to mind.

I don't think there exists an easy solution, other than modeling the size of the bracing historically in all the aircraft.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[funked]

P-38 pilots complained big time in real life about the numerous braces.  The Lightning had terrible visibility.

The bar in the 190 looks the right size to me.  Deal with it.

[Wingnut_0]

Originally posted by StSanta:
The problem is with the way a relatively unobtrusive "rail" is presented in the 3D cockpit. Due to the math involved, it expandsat it gets closer to you, and get smaller as you move away.

Ok santa, I've a LW driver also..but I gotta say this..hehe.  That happens in reality man..the closer u get to something the bigger it gets..lol

Seriously, I don't the problem.  i've got my views situated to eleviate the problem.  I first saw ur post and I picked up a die-cast (wonderful detailed) A-7 model and it had the bar also. (off topic i know but..)

Wingnut

[Nath-BDP]

are those your actually high 6 and front-up view positions?? EEEK!

[LLv34_Snefens]

Heh, to me the 190 has almost as good a view as you get. The high six view is no problem at all and can be made full vision (I hope you don't fly around with the view you show at that shot).
The high 12 shot you can't remove the bar completly, but to your liking it can be moved to either side to give a good view directly high. With the Hi Numpad7 and Numpad9 you don't have any angles blocked.
At the front view the bar may be annoying due tot the fact that you can't look around it and still keep your sight, but for me, when enemy is so that it will be blocked then I really just shift to high 12 and have it set to look around the bar. No sweat.

Check my own site for the views I use.

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Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34

[This message has been edited by LLv34_Snefens (edited 09-26-2000).]

[StSanta]

funked

This is a 190A5, not a P38.
It has one small rail, one stereo vision should be able to "look around".

"Deal with it." Man, you've sounded aggressive lately. Where in my post did I offend you?

No, this nis not my view (but very close to them). I've moved my seat a little to the right so straight ahead/up/back in not in the way. The prob is; if I move more to the right, I lose too much of the left side. If I move closer to the back, I lose too much of 6 view. It's all a big compromise.

I agree with Verm here, but, having said that, I believe that bar obstructs far more than it'd do in RL.

Ok, that's the end of this discussion, thank you gentlemen.

Snefens, your personal site is where? I cannot locate it from that link.



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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"