Author Topic: How hotis too hot?? (Read 4102 times)

WhiteHawk · « **Reply #30 on:** November 23, 2003, 05:35:19 PM »

thnx again guys. Ya mold that is pretty much how it is. I upped my temp warning to 62C and kept my shutdown at 65C.
I am using Hardware doctor to monitor the temps. Some people have said that this is inaccurate.
Do you know of any reliable hardware monitor programs?
I am using the stock heatsink/fan that came with the chip.
I am planning on adding 2 case fans. I already have 2, but I am not gonna go liquid.
I had a pretty good OC at 215 going. Il-2 ran nice and cool (55C), but Ah pushed it to about 59C, So I brought it back down to 210. I guess upping the vcore to 1.6V helped alot.

DAVENRINO · « **Reply #31 on:** November 23, 2003, 07:13:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Do you know of any reliable hardware monitor programs?

I guess you didn't try my suggestion above.
DJ229 -AIR MAFIA

WhiteHawk · « **Reply #32 on:** November 23, 2003, 07:22:36 PM »

ahhh..sorry Davenrino, hehe. it wasnt an issue way up there since i had Hardware doctor doing the same thing.

Thnx, I will try that one.

DAVENRINO · « **Reply #33 on:** November 23, 2003, 07:34:13 PM »

NP,
It is a little tricky to set up but the new wizard takes care of most the settings for you. I checked and your board is supported so it should be listed in the wizard. If not, click on motherboards on the home page and you will find yours listed telling you which sensors to use. It will prolly work best if you uninstall any other hardware mointoring progs first. You have the option of displaying a lot of readings on your taskbar. I manually launch the prog and only show CUP diode temp in Systray.
DJ229 - AIR MAFIA

mold · « **Reply #34 on:** November 23, 2003, 10:46:10 PM »

Whitehawk--

59 deg is a pretty hot CPU. I would consider getting a better heatsink + fan. I have a ThermalRight SP94, which is (I believe) the best air-cooler on the market (actually, tests show that it beats all the water coolers too). But it is about $45. You can get cheaper heatisinks that will work quite a bit better than the stock one. I've heard Zalman heatsinks are pretty good for the money.

Also, keep in mind that increasing Vcore will improve your OC stability, but also increase your heat (at any given frequency). The reason overvolting works with OC'ing is due to the CPU not having time to reach logic (1) on a fast clock--with higher Vcore, the rise time is the same but the terminal voltage is higher so by the time the clock strikes, the voltage gets to logic (1) anyway (even though it hasn't reached the max voltage). So, better stability. The reason for higher heat (I think) is your basic P=V^2/R, where higher V means higher P means higher heat.

DAVENRINO · « **Reply #35 on:** November 23, 2003, 11:48:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mold
I have a ThermalRight SP94, which is (I believe) the best air-cooler on the market (actually, tests show that it beats all the water coolers too).

I agree that 59 is too hot , but do you really believe your air cooler beats ALL watercooling setups? Maybe some of the low-end kits. I get a 5-9 deg C rise from case to CPU temp with a moderate overclock and it is almost silent as my Dual 120mm shrouded fans turn at 1000 rpm on an external Dtek core. Granted it cost a bit more than $45, but it is worth it for the silence since my tower is enclosed in my desk and I rarely use air conditioning. I prefer my nice ocean breeze.

DJ229 - AIR MAFIA

WhiteHawk · « **Reply #36 on:** November 24, 2003, 06:25:24 AM »

Found this at abit site,

"The way CPU temperature measured in the BIOS or in the hardware monitor is through an I/O chip on the motherboard. That I/O chip probes a voltage given by the CPU thermal diode, and then BIOS / hardware monitor reads this value and uses some mathematical way to calculate the approximate temperature. According to Intel, there is another temperature sensing diode, which is responsible for the CPU overheating protection. When the CPU junction temperature reaches approximately 135 degrees Celsius (275 degrees F), the processor will turn down itself. That is, we can say the CPU is quite safe if it is less then 135 degrees Celsius (275 degrees F).

Since the temperature is “calculated”, not “measured”, the formula which the BIOS uses will make the outcome different. There is a parameter that is provided by the I/O chip vender, which we expect it to be the standard, so we use this parameter to calculate the temperature of the processor. Once this parameter in the BIOS is changed, the temperature shown in the BIOS PC health or in the hardware monitor tool will be altered. But, in the mean time, the actual temperature of the CPU is still the same. So the temperature you saw might be higher comparing to other motherboard with the same chipset, it is because we use the different parameter to calculate the temperature. We cannot say that we are more accurate, but we sure follow the standard provided by the I/O chip vender, and we believe it should be the proper one."

mold · « **Reply #37 on:** November 24, 2003, 09:26:20 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by DAVENRINO
I agree that 59 is too hot , but do you really believe your air cooler beats ALL watercooling setups?

I guess I should have said "some tests show".

Check out http://www.overclockers.com/articles373/ . Here the SP-94 beats all. Granted, this is with a "Pratt and Whitney 23k lbs" Vantec Tornado fan. I agree that for low noise purposes watercooling is the way.

However, I have built a fairly low noise SP-94 setup. A meager 35 db from my Panaflo 57 CFM heatsink fan. I have no case fans, only a 20" boxfan ($10 at Lowes) blowing through the case on low. I am running the CPU at 1.7Vcore (1.65V measured), and 3.5 GHz. That gives me a CPU temp of 47 deg idle, and 56 deg loaded with two instances of Prime95. And the whole thing is pretty quiet--basically, like having a box fan on low in the room with you. Not too bad.

214thCavalier · « **Reply #38 on:** November 24, 2003, 11:52:46 AM »

WhiteHawk your temps.

From this thread, just go and compare you will see for the Abit's you are not alone.

http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26860

Picked 2 to show the Abit is KNOWN for reporting higher temps than other boards.
Just because the formula they use to interpret the temps varies from other manufacturers does not mean the cpu is actually that hot.

Personally i think Abit are measuring incorrectly as temp probes seem to confirm its high by approx 10 degrees C.

On abit ic7-max3 39.5°
same set-up (fans, ram, cpu) on gigabyte 8KNXP board was 29° so im reluctant to believe how accurate this board reads ...

2.4 oc to 3.0 IDLE
Abit Max3 39.6 Case 27
Asus p4c800 26 Case 27

Stop panicking get a better heatsink fan combo than standard, and overclock the SOB.

I know banana had problems with his install but most people don't and those who do get past it, MrBlack was happily overclocking the crap outa his succesfully, (same as many others are) until his cooling killed it.
Point is its not all bad and some of the boards have no problems anyway.

The Asus board may be easier to deal with out of the box but even that board has its problems for overclocking.

OK so the Abit has voltage problems in the 2.9 to 3.2v range (which can now be cured)
But the Asus only goes up to 2.85v anyway. You can get higher than the 2.85 on the Asus but it involves a motherboard mod.
Oops theres that phrase again motherboard mod.

So now we are left with a low vtt reading on the Abit, but wait the Asus can only go to 1.6v on the cpu.

Point is none of them are perfect for overclocking, yes many review sites led us to believe the Abit was perfect in this regard, express your dissatisfaction to them.

Its obvious you are new to overclocking, as you dont even know about memory timings you need to go read up on it. I also suggest you go read up on the various Bios options and how they will relate to your overclocking attempts.

When it comes to overclocking and this applies to all, if your not prepared to put time into it learning the whys and wherefores, tinkering, and modding then perhaps you should not be doing it.

And just why is your particular motherboard a POS WhiteHawk ?
You have not had it long enough to know whether any of the problems some have are actually affecting you.
You do of course realise all of them are perfectly stable up to 2.8v for the memory which is already well in excess of the standard voltage for memory anyway.

And your memory is rated to run between 2.5 and 2.75 volts so its not really a problem.
Its a problem for those guys who buy the expensive ram rated for 3.1 volts.

mold · « **Reply #39 on:** November 24, 2003, 12:56:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
2.4 oc to 3.0 IDLE
Abit Max3 39.6 Case 27
Asus p4c800 26 Case 27

Either that's a typo, or there's something wrong with the Asus figures. You can never get the CPU below case temps, unless you use refrigeration. And if you are using refrigeration, should be lower than a mere 26 I'd think.

Quote

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
OK so the Abit has voltage problems in the 2.9 to 3.2v range (which can now be cured)

Nope. Vtt was and is the real problem. Still not solved, and in fact there is absolutely no indication that Abit even acknowledges the existence of that problem.

Quote

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
But the Asus only goes up to 2.85v anyway. You can get higher than the 2.85 on the Asus but it involves a motherboard mod.
Oops theres that phrase again motherboard mod.

True--but the mod is pretty easy, and at least you can actually do something about it. Furthermore, Asus never made any claim that the board could handle >2.85 volts, like Abit did. And finally, Abit undervolts--2.8 Vdimm setting is actually more like 2.75. While from what I've heard, Asus overvolts.

Quote

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
but wait the Asus can only go to 1.6v on the cpu.

True. Lesser of the two evils, I think. Especially since the Asus reportedly overvolts the Vcore as well.

Quote

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Point is none of them are perfect for overclocking, yes many review sites led us to believe the Abit was perfect in this regard, express your dissatisfaction to them.

Not the review sites' fault. The board is supposed to run >2.9Vdimm properly, regardless of reviews. It doesn't. And no acknowledgement of the problem, let alone a fix for it. Therefore, bad board.

Quote

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
And your memory is rated to run between 2.5 and 2.75 volts so its not really a problem.
Its a problem for those guys who buy the expensive ram rated for 3.1 volts.

True.

mold · « **Reply #40 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:06:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
So now we are left with a low vtt reading on the Abit, but wait the Asus can only go to 1.6v on the cpu.

Oh, BTW this limitation only appears to affect the non-E version. On the Asus P4C800-E Deluxe, you can apparently push Vcore up to 1.95, without mods. Now, I seem to recall reading something somehwere saying Vcore might not be stable enough over 1.6 V. Can't find it now. Do you know where I might find information indicating the presence or lack of this?

214thCavalier · « **Reply #41 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:23:16 PM »

Not offhand no, but i have also seen the claims that its unstable over 1.6v

Its also worth remembering many claim the earlier P4C800 was an absolute dog and the P4C800-E is actually the fix.

So those who claim Asus get it right first time, are not aware of the revision history.

Its also worth noting that banana says

Quote

built a new system a month ago, spent three days trying to get the Abit IC7-MAX 3 to boot properly. Finally gave up and exchanged it for an Asus P4C800 Deluxe. Best decision I've made in a long time. Been running my P4 2.4 800fsb at 3.01 GHZ at a chilly 29 celcius at idle.

So he can overclock his 2.4C to 3.0G and still run at 29C (note close to figure of other guy above)

Looks more likely to me the Asus has a problem reporting correct cpu temps and is under reporting them.
But i guess nobody will moan about that cos its what they want to believe ?

mold · « **Reply #42 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:55:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
So those who claim Asus get it right first time, are not aware of the revision history.

Who's making that claim?

Quote

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Looks more likely to me the Asus has a problem reporting correct cpu temps and is under reporting them.
But i guess nobody will moan about that cos its what they want to believe ?

If it's a problem, then it's a problem. I'm not trying to defend a purchase...I don't really give a damn about either Asus or Abit. I just want something that works as advertised, so I can make a proper decision. If the Asus has problems, and I can live with those problems, then I get the Asus. Simple as that. If the board has problems meeting it's spec'ed features, and I can't live with those inadequacies, the board goes into the trash.

Maybe some folks are OK with Vdimm >2.9 not working properly. Fine.

214thCavalier · « **Reply #43 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:32:45 PM »

Here ya go 1 link re vcore on Asus.

http://forum.oc-forums.com/showthread.php?threadid=228914&highlight=vcore

That claim was not by you Mold so you can safely ignore it.

And the Abit Vdimm over 2.8 can be fixed and some guys are reporting new boards are ok now anyway.

Vtt is another issue though.

Point is neither board is perfect, although if i was in the market for one right now i would probably go Asus.

mold · « **Reply #44 on:** November 24, 2003, 07:53:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
http://forum.oc-forums.com/showthread.php?threadid=228914&highlight=vcore

Thanks. Yes, this is troubling. I hope it does not become an issue for me. Actually, I don't think it will--no one in that thread seemed to be experiencing crashes due to this, and I will be doing a 1:1 OC anyway so I probably won't need more than 1.57 Vcore under load.

Quote

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Point is neither board is perfect, although if i was in the market for one right now i would probably go Asus.

True.