Author Topic: Military Intelligence... (Read 1213 times)

DmdNexus · « **on:** November 18, 2003, 08:30:45 AM »

This is an interesting read from a USAF Officer

It's not the usually exagerated Hyperbole... rather well balanced and reasoned...

with citations... that can be independently verified.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/whispers/documents/truth.pdf

Be interested in hearing from the right wing with comments and citations to debunk this man's well researched point of view.

Virage · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2003, 09:02:06 AM »

thnx.

DmdNexus · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2003, 09:30:13 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Virage
thnx.

Welcome....

Haven't heard a cogent arguement yet on this board.... where all the WMD went too... have heard a lot of lies in the media... a lot of misinformation coming from the white house... and the majority of the right wingers on this board believes these stories... even though they are shortly debunked with facts... and then the White house admits to the facts...

any way this USAF Colonel puts it all together... and when you step back and look at the big picture... his story makes sense....

This is the kinds of stuff we did at NSA during the cold war... with what was coming out of the Soviet Union... which was notorious for disinformation... but you could glean their motives... and intentions through their network and command and control organization....

Rumfelds has setup an Office of Strategic Influence., which would be a governement agency that would create propaganda to be used on the American people to persuade the thinking of American populace.

This isn't exagerated left wing hysteria... it was in the news.. he went on TV.. he admits to it... he wants to control the information given to the American people... he got a lot of watermelon over this... however... he dropped the name but continued to create this "office"... and it is operating today.

http://usembassy.state.gov/tokyo/wwwhse1083.html
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20031023-114713-4202r.htm
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/02/dod022602.html

Remember this is the same guy that wanted to start Operation TIPS, where Americans would report rumors about other Americans kind of remeniscient of the KGB... and there would be central database.. Whoo... yeah this was another idea pigeon holed... and condemned by the US Congress and the RNC... but hey he came up with it... no filter in this guys brain... no sense of "gee wally wouldn't that be very very very Anti-american?"

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0208/20/asb.00.html

Martlet · « **Reply #3 on:** November 18, 2003, 10:10:15 AM »

Ripsnort · « **Reply #4 on:** November 18, 2003, 10:15:26 AM »

Quote

I'm right next to the Pope! Sheesh!

Economic Left/Right: 2.00
Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.23

You're a confused young man too.

DmdNexus · « **Reply #5 on:** November 18, 2003, 10:26:14 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
You're a confused young man too.

I'm not hearing any reasonalbe arguement about Gardiner's observations.

History is chocked full of governement ran programs of misinformation...

Churchhill was famous for misleading the Germans. Remember body of the dead admiral (actually some john doe found ont he streets of London ) and the invasion plans - dropped off the coast of spain by a British submarine.

And protecting the secrets of the enigma machine by not warning citizens of air raids....

Rumfelds has said publically... I'm not making this up... he wants an office that propagandizes the administrations message....

hey I'm not sprewing the neo-con... nazi... anti-bush rhetoric... here. I'm keeping it civil.

john9001 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2003, 11:05:52 AM »

i think the USA should tell the terriorests exactly what the USA plans are, cuz , gee wally , americans like a fair fight.

DmdNexus · « **Reply #7 on:** November 18, 2003, 11:54:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by john9001
i think the USA should tell the terriorests exactly what the USA plans are, cuz , gee wally , americans like a fair fight.

This isn't about telling terrorist anything. Secret information about terror organizations, sources of intelligence, etc are still secrets and are not part of public debate.

Justify war on another nation is the obligation of the American government.

This is about the government propagandizing the American people and lying about the facts and performing PsyOps on the American public and the American congress.

Rhetoricalize it all you want... Lt. Col Sam Gardiner puts his case rather straight forwardly, with plain facts, and traceble sources... this is no OpEd rant from the left or the right. He avoids talking about "intentions" - rightly so, because he just does not know... step back and look at the pattern of the false reports let out by the government... not corrected... and there is a pattern of misinformation which is something he taught at the War College.

look at the intentiosn of Rumfelds to create an Office of Strategic Information... and his point of view to continue with this effort after it was ridiculed... even by his own Republican party.

Gardiner is no left wing kook liberal. He taught many of the generals at the pentagon what they know.

There's a number of independent sources to collaborate his point of view.... check them out.

Again.. where are the pro-Bush supporters?

Kind of hard to talk when the facts are against your point of view....eh?

Well then just resort to name calling.. you know the tried and true..."liberal"

Please I challenge any of you to refute one story in this man's report.

Martlet · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2003, 01:08:21 PM »

Refute? Unless it changes after page 19, there is nothing to refute. I couldn't take anymore, and stopped reading there.

It's all a tinfoil hat laugh sheet.

DmdNexus · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2003, 01:36:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Martlet
Refute? Unless it changes after page 19, there is nothing to refute. I couldn't take anymore, and stopped reading there.
It's all a tinfoil hat laugh sheet.

Yah that MTV 3 second attention span catches up with you doesn't it

It doesn't gel with your existing opinion does it.

I guess back in 1945... most brits and Americans would not have thought to dump a dead body over board with fake invasion plans.... that kind of thinking isn't quite mainstream.

It's also hard to comprehend the Soviet Union re-writing their own history... distorting the truth about the west... and putting political disadents in to prison....

Or is that hard to believe?

Hard to believe something like that would happen in American..

Now information is coming out that the Tiger Force killed innocent vietnamese civilians.... covered up investigations.

Yep TinHat stuff....

Even though you can go to CNN and Foxnews and corraborate everything he says.

Mini D · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2003, 01:49:05 PM »

Why do you call the thread "Military Intelligence"? Why did you use the term "USAF Officer" instead of "Retired USAF Officer"?

I find it funny that you use these misleading statements while linking an article on how the Bush administration was misleading the public.

MiniD

Martlet · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2003, 01:54:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mini D
Why do you call the thread "Military Intelligence"? Why did you use the term "USAF Officer" instead of "Retired USAF Officer"?

I find it funny that you use these misleading statements while linking an article on how the Bush administration was misleading the public.

MiniD

DOH!

DmdNexus · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2003, 02:50:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mini D
Why do you call the thread "Military Intelligence"? Why did you use the term "USAF Officer" instead of "Retired USAF Officer"?

I find it funny that you use these misleading statements while linking an article on how the Bush administration was misleading the public.

MiniD

Former presidents and senators are referred to as "President" and "Senator"

Same goes with retired military officers.

It's not misleading... the article doesn't hide it either.

You can get stuck on that tree... or you can see the forest... that's up to you..

Read the article... it speaks for it self.

And the title does relate to military intelligence... I don't expect you to see it... because it's not a subject widely knownw...

studying what the enemy says in it's communications is one of the aspects of figuring out what the enemies intentions are....

Read the "Puzzle Palace" you'll undestand what I'm talking about.

In this case Sam Gardiner applied the same techniques US Military Intelligence analysts apply to propaganda distributed by foreign governments.

When viewed by an educated eye... one can make the case, and that is what Sam Gardiner is doing... the Bush Administration is propagandizing the American people by leaking and making blatantly false statements to the public.. by making innuendos... and by leaving verified false reports out in the media... even when questioned directly as to their veracity...

Sam puts it together... notice he doesn't draw any conclusions except that the examples he cites suggests that there is a form of Military style PsyOps being conducted on the American People...

Judge for your self if it rings true...

It's a theory until someone comes forth and admits it... or there's a smoking gun.

Mini D · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2003, 02:57:24 PM »

They are refered to as "Former President... " and "USAF Officer (retired)...". I know you don't see the difference, mainly because you don't want to. It's easy to justify ommitting certain things to try to make a point... isn't it?

The point I'm making is one can sit and nitpic subtleties and try to draw conclusions from it all they want. That paper linked is not unbiased... it is slanted. The whole thing is justification for the slant and not unbiased discussion on the topic. It is nitpicking subtleties and drawing conclusions from that. Hell... I could do that to your posts all day long as they are just about as worthless as anything I've seen.

MiniD

mrblack · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2003, 03:00:15 PM »

Military Intelligence is an oxymoron aint it?