Author Topic: Two finger salute. (Read 931 times)

Bluedog · « **on:** November 19, 2003, 10:51:34 PM »

The traditional English F U , two finger salute.
Anyone know it's origins?

I was just reading the thread about f15 jockeys flipping the bird, and it reminded me of this.
I read about where and how it came about, and it's pretty interesting.

If no one answers, I'll post it, just wanted to see how many, if any, knew.

john9001 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2003, 11:20:21 PM »

i know what it means , but i won't spoil it , ..hint, english longbowmen.

Pei · « **Reply #2 on:** November 20, 2003, 12:27:01 AM »

During the 100 Years War against France the English longbowmen became the prime means of defeating the heavily fancied noble French cavalry which had previously swept the world before it.
War purists complained that use of the longbow was boring and was ruining the sport of war, while the English pointed out that it was a very difficult and exacting skill which they had spent many years learning and just because the opposition couldn't get the hang of it wasn't their fault. Besides perhaps there should be less whingeing and the opposition should instead put some effort in and learn how to fire a longbow too. Afterall it was winning that was important, not looking fancy in your new armour dashing around on your fancy warhorse.
The whingers however kept on suggesting that the amount of points scored for firing arrow through a knight should be reduced to encourage the pure hand to hand sword fight that they claimed to preffer to play (despite the fact that the previous world championship had been achieved by the whingers main team through use of the crossbow).
Anyway the French instituted a campaign of cutting the first two fingers off the bow hand of any english archer they caught. So the two fingered salute arose: it literally translates as "we can still use our longbows".

Dinger · « **Reply #3 on:** November 20, 2003, 01:07:39 AM »

davidpt40 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 20, 2003, 02:54:24 AM »

if they cut off the first two fingers, wouldnt that be the index and middle finger?

And the fact of the matter is, knights and cavalry were able to kill longbowmen pretty easily. The only real victory longbowmen had over french cavalry is when the french dismounted in an extremely muddy field, and trudged towards english lines. Believe that was the battle of Agen Court (sic).

straffo · « **Reply #5 on:** November 20, 2003, 03:19:19 AM »

Azincourt

Dowding · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2003, 03:39:24 AM »

lol Pei - strangely, your account has some echoes with recent sporting events.

Momus-- · « **Reply #7 on:** November 20, 2003, 06:50:10 AM »

Damn revisionists. It was American longbowmen that saved the Brit's tulips in the 100 years war. Jeeze.

Pooh21 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2003, 07:09:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by davidpt40
if they cut off the first two fingers, wouldnt that be the index and middle finger?

And the fact of the matter is, knights and cavalry were able to kill longbowmen pretty easily. The only real victory longbowmen had over french cavalry is when the french dismounted in an extremely muddy field, and trudged towards english lines. Believe that was the battle of Agen Court (sic).

Agincourt, french changed the name to Azincourt so they could forget how bad they got owned

Crecy was mostly mounted french knights. They got slaughtered there as well

straffo · « **Reply #9 on:** November 20, 2003, 07:36:14 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pooh21
Agincourt, french changed the name to Azincourt so they could forget how bad they got owned

Crecy was mostly mounted french knights. They got slaughtered there as well

Certainly, there is only 500 km between the 2 towns.

loser · « **Reply #10 on:** November 20, 2003, 08:20:25 AM »

pluck yew!

gofaster · « **Reply #11 on:** November 20, 2003, 08:43:59 AM »

I've never heard of a two-finger salute, other than the Hawaiian "hang-loose" sign which is actually a welcoming "dude, you're cool" sign.

For those not familiar, its the thumb and pinky finger extended with the others curled, sometimes with a slight wiggle.

Bluedog · « **Reply #12 on:** November 20, 2003, 09:15:11 PM »

Like what Mick Dundee does to the water buff in Crocodile Dundee you mean Gofaster?

You know the 'V for Victory' thing you see Winston Churchill doing in documentaries? Reverse it, so the palm is inward, and you have the rude version.

BTW, Pei has it correct, or at least pretty much the same thing I heard....the French threatened to chop off the 'drawing fingers' of captured English longbowmen.
As he said, it means 'I can still use a Longbow Frenchman!'....condensed for ease of use to 'FU'

I just thought it was interesting

Carry on Gen'lemen.

Chairboy · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2003, 09:27:05 PM »

Just because you heard the same thing that Pei did doesn't mean that the two of you are correct.

http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.htm

For example, just because a bunch of people believe that water drains backwards in the southern hemisphere (as opposed to the northern hemisphere) doesn't mean that it's true. In fact, it's quite false, one of the most ingrained urban legends I've seen.

Bluedog · « **Reply #14 on:** November 21, 2003, 08:18:47 AM »

Not talking about the 'bird', or the middle finger salute commonly used by Americans today.
Same overall meaning, but a differant gesture alltogether.

Anyway, correct or not, it is at least interesting

Allso, though that article states that bowmen werent worth capturing, English Longbows werent exactly common bowmen, they are a far more fearsome weapon, having vastly more range (somewhere in the order of double) than contempory bows, and they apparently fairly well messed with a French mounted nobleman's whole day.

OK...so anyone know where 'shiver me timbers' comes from?