Author Topic: I was looking for police... (Read 1811 times)

miko2d · « **Reply #15 on:** November 21, 2003, 03:43:54 PM »

AKIron: Of course I don't trust you, why should I?

Sure, you do not ahve to trust me. But did you really believe I would distort the numerical data that is so easy to verify? Or did you just need an excuse to swear?

It is customary to credit your source when quoting.

That's true. I will try to remember that. But there is no reason to be uncivil about such a trifle.

I'm not a policeman but I have much respect for them as you obviously do not.

I respect individuals, not institutions. When someone toots his horn, it makes that much harder to respect him/her. From all that hype and salary demands you would expect that police job is among the most dangerous ones. It's not.
It does not even require the best individuals - I know what is being done to the entrance tests in the name of Affirmative Action.

Please, I extend to you my invitation to go back to your homeland where life is so much better.

You seem stuck here like a broken record. If you believe the life in a communist counytry is so much better, why don't you go there rather than advocate communism here. Would it kill you to leave one free country in the world, the way it was, say, a hundred years ago?

And you are lying too. Of course you want me to stay here and pay big bucks for your socialist schemes, all the while telling me tales about how I control everything and how it's all done for me.

If those things were so great, why would we need government coercion to pay for them?

miko

Sandman · « **Reply #16 on:** November 21, 2003, 03:45:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by gofaster
They forgot "flight deck crewmen on aircraft carriers".

It may be dangerous, but fatalities aren't what why I would call common. IIRC, we used to lose at least one guy on each deployment, but at that rate, you're only talking about a dozen fatalities per year for both the pacific and atlantic fleets.

mrblack · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2003, 03:50:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
It may be dangerous, but fatalities aren't what why I would call common. IIRC, we used to lose at least one guy on each deployment, but at that rate, you're only talking about a dozen fatalities per year for both the pacific and atlantic fleets.

But if you break that down into% then thats a high rate.

miko2d · « **Reply #18 on:** November 21, 2003, 03:55:20 PM »

Dune: You've given in to making ridiculous statements such as all cops are too busy busting smokers to do any real police work.

I am obviously talking about my personal expereince there, though the data I cited is national one.

And now you've gotten to the point that you feel you shouldn't have to pay for any service you don't want.

I've been reading too much of the Founding Fathers...

And this includes what your tax money goes to. You may not mind it paying for a road to your house,

Of course I mind. I can pay for my own damn road just like I can pay for my own damn house. I do not need government coersion to make other people to pay fro my road.

but don't want it paying for a cop's salary.

I do not want to pay the government cop's salary. I pay plenty of salaries.

I guess maybe because of the work I do I just shake my head at you. Are some cops better at their jobs than others?

So a free market would reward the good ones and make the bad ones unemployed.

Yes, just like accountants, cooks and rocket scientists.

but I do not get thrown to jail if I refuse any of their services, unlike the government police. And I can switch teh accountant or a cook if I am not happy with it. I do not have to persuade a few million other people in order to do that. I just take my money and go across the street.

Are there some that are on the take or violent or lazy? Yep. But far less than you seem to imagine. At the same time I see a vast majority who are trying to make difference and punish those who break the law. Maybe they weren't there to prevent the law being broken in the first place, but they try to catch those who do.

Yea, yea - there were some bad officials in the Soviet Union socialist state but most were good people concerned about my wellbeing...

The type of chaos a private police force would create would be pretty impressive.

Neither history nor theory supports that assumption.

Do you honestly think that you'd be able to fire them if you were angry with their performance?

I have no doubt whatsoever.

Agencies like the Pinkertons have proven to be even more corrupt than state law enforcement throughout American history.

Right - american history as written by government historians and taught in government schools.
And societ schools taught me how the american capitalism is so corrupt that people are massively unemployed and starving. same socialist propaganda, in different language.

Perhaps your expectations are skewed. I'm not sure.

One is either for socialism/communism or for free market. One cannot be a little bit pregnant.

miko

AKIron · « **Reply #19 on:** November 21, 2003, 04:00:00 PM »

Miko, if my use of the word "ass" offends your sensitivites then you have my apology. I also find it offensive being called a liar, however, no need to apologize as I consider the source and it lessens the blow.

I'm presuming that your intent in starting this thread was to diminish in your mind the debt that you owe to the police. I find this both ignorant and offensive. Consider this, most, if not all of the fatalities in professions you cited were a result of an accident. Probably many were the result of individual carelessness. I could be wrong about this but I don't think so. However, many fatalites among police are the direct result of them standing between you and someone that would deprive you of life or property. If you cannot see the difference then I am wasting my time.

Tarmac · « **Reply #20 on:** November 21, 2003, 04:01:05 PM »

I'll assume Miko's statistics are correct, for argument's sake. Sure, there are less-hyped jobs that, statistically, have higher death rates per capita.

I draw a distinction in the way a person can end up injured or dead on the job. The ways to get yourself hurt in Miko's list generally consist of negligence (your own or someone else's) and dumb luck (weather, unforseeable mechanical failure, etc). Police deal with both of these in their everyday jobs, but add a third: there are people out there who will assault you just for your uniform.

I've never heard of someone saying "I hate roofers. If a roofer ever comes to my house and tries to do his job, by golly, I'm gonna bust a cap in his ass." Cops aren't so lucky.

ravells · « **Reply #21 on:** November 21, 2003, 04:05:39 PM »

In miko's world people know the price of everything but the value of nothing (cliche, I know, but an appropriate one in this case).

I'm so glad I don't live there.

Ravs

Sundiver · « **Reply #22 on:** November 21, 2003, 04:19:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d

I've been reading too much of the Founding Fathers...

And a big tip of the hat for that statement. Miko bud, though I'm a staunch Libertarian you and I disagree on a great deal, however I do indeed Salute you for that if nothing else. I have to wonder how many people on this board or indeed in American modern society in general have ever read what our Founding Fathers had to say on ideals of freedom and liberty. I mean outside of the 20 pages required in school.

There's alot to be learned there and alot of wisdom.

Again a big Salute. It often seems our immigrants are more impassioned about our Ideals than people born and raised here which is a sad thing.

Sixpence · « **Reply #23 on:** November 21, 2003, 04:49:39 PM »

Yeah, great, people with money would get police protection, and the people with no money would get no protection.

I think what is more important is that police reside in the city they serve(required here in Ma but becoming ignored). The excuse is they fear for their lives in bad cities from gang members. Well, if you are afraid to do the job, let someone else with nads do it. There are plenty of others who will do the job.

Curval · « **Reply #24 on:** November 21, 2003, 04:53:00 PM »

They missed out accountancy altogether...not only do you face the distinct possibily of excessive paper cuts...but an irate client can be extremely hazerdous.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #25 on:** November 21, 2003, 05:13:26 PM »

I've seen an older list of 'most dangerouse jobs', when they figured only OTJ fatalities the list looked much the same as the one you showed, when they included 'work related deaths' it chaged quite a bit.

firemen came way up on the list, cops dropped a bit farther. loggers still held the top slot, followed by firemen, and fishermen.

one thing that makes the list so different is many fields (like firemen and welders) don't die as often at work, but just die early from work related illness and injury.

it's not htat I think we don't need cops or I don't apriciate the job they do. but when one of my co-workers go down at work nobody throws a parade.

ra · « **Reply #26 on:** November 21, 2003, 05:18:01 PM »

I would have thought miners would be somewhere on this list.

Lazerus · « **Reply #27 on:** November 21, 2003, 07:19:36 PM »

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2002. The 10 most dangerous jobs
Occupation Fatalities per 100,000

1.Timber cutters 117.8
2.Fishers 71.1
3.Pilots and navigators 69.8
4.Structural metal workers 58.2
5.Drivers-sales workers 37.9
6.Roofers 37
7.Electrical power installers 32.5
8.Farm occupations 28
9.Construction laborers 27.7
10.Truck drivers 25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1-done it
5-done it
6-done it
7-done it
8-done it
9-done it

Most of the occupations on this list are widely held by unskilled and untrained laborers. I've personaly known people employed in 2, 4 and 10 and know the lack of training that they received before being put in the work place. Drug use on the job is rampant in many of the fields listed also.

Police undergo extensive training for their job, before they are assigned to a seasoned partner, and continuously through their employment. Comparing their fatality rates to these is apples to oranges. The circumstances involved are also usualy different as has already been pointed out.

Of course no one group of people is perfect. Of course there are examples of the misuse of authority. Of course these would be the examples cited by anyone trying to diminish anothers view of said group.

Speaking of the founding fathers, why don't you re-read the bill of rights and see if you can't find a few that the police help you keep. I guarantee that the rate of liberties of individuals saved by police are infinately higher than those taken unlawfully by police.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #28 on:** November 21, 2003, 07:48:42 PM »

Where is the convenience store clerk? Obviously, the statistics are flawed.

[Apu]"Would you like to super-size your squishy?"[/Apu]

Dune · « **Reply #29 on:** November 21, 2003, 08:52:51 PM »

Miko, you can hide behind your readings of the founding fathers all you want, but what I see is not some super-patriot trying to show us how we have drifted away from their vision.

I see someone who has been oppressed by government before and now that he has a hate for all government. And any of its agents.

Because you hate the police, you wish to control them by owning them. And when you own your own police force and so does your neighbor, what happens then? What happens when there is a dispute? Where do you go?

What's interesting is that the same Founding Fathers you claim to revere so much have given you a way to control the government and its agents. By your vote. By freedom of speech, the press and congregation. But you've already said that those ways don't work. In fact, you've said in another thread that because of majority rule, you'll never achieve this paradise you're talking about.

Quote

And jews in Germany controlled theirs through their votes, so they must have been ok, right?
The majority can vote to force me do anything they want, so what? Even if I join the majority party, my vote would be 1/2000000 of the total, hardly an influence. When I buy something from a private supplier, my every vote is unanimous and decisive. That's influence.

So, on one hand you say that you're a follower of the FF's, yet you don't agree with the system of government they set up. Interesting contradiction.

BTW, I enjoyed how you said that what I've read in the history books is invalid because they were written by the government.

Quote

Right - american history as written by government historians and taught in government schools.
And societ schools taught me how the american capitalism is so corrupt that people are massively unemployed and starving. same socialist propaganda, in different language.

I suppose you have access to the books that speak the "true" history. How very conveinent for you.