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Author Topic: Big Brother  (Read 811 times)

Offline Manedew

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« on: November 23, 2003, 11:09:47 AM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/23/national/23FBI.html?ei=1&en=90b63f376db6b63d&ex=1070534438&pagewanted=print&position=

I was always taught we belived in innocent until proven guilty .....

Seems the FBI has other ideas .... Because YOU might be a terroist he needs to keep track of you.... watch you.... .. thats basicly what these FBI agents say behind a bunch of BS

They try to strike fear in us by saying these are good places for terroist attacks.... What BS ....


What they are saying is background checks for being a citizen who 'might' do somethign crazy .... and they aren't talking about  Al'Queda .... they mean like the socialists etc .. and ya they maybe annyoing .. but thats the USA....or they may mean you.... if you disagree too loudly.....
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Offline Martlet

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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2003, 11:51:11 AM »
Shame on the FBI for trying to gather information on people that assault police officers, destroy private property, and commit corporate vandalism.
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Offline Maverick

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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2003, 12:17:26 PM »
Peacefull protest is protected. Vandalism, assault, arson and riot are not. Once the first overt act is committed the situation has changed. Mob mentality is not pretty and the situations tend to escalate extremely fast.

Public gatherings in LARGE numbers are also a bit hard on the infrastructure of a city such as transportation when they block public access like streets.

I am not happy about the gathering of intel on citizens who have not done anything but I have to state after having been through a less than peacefull "gathering" I understand it.

Personally I cannot fathom the restraint shown by the Korean police during the "annual spring student protests".  Facing molotave cocktails is hardly a sign of a peacefull demonstration. As far as I am concerned a person throwing a molotov cocktail is commiting attempted murder and deserves to be stopped.
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Offline Manedew

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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2003, 02:13:19 PM »
The point is they are assumeing that these people are guilty of vandalism, assault, arson and riot... before the fact...... And the FBI is more than happy to admit it .. and the media seems little bothered by it

This doesn't bother you? That is searching without cause without warrent etc ...   that's not what we're about .. we arn't cowards that need to spy on our own countrymen in fear,.... are we?
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Offline Martlet

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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2003, 02:33:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Manedew
The point is they are assumeing that these people are guilty of vandalism, assault, arson and riot... before the fact...... And the FBI is more than happy to admit it .. and the media seems little bothered by it

This doesn't bother you? That is searching without cause without warrent etc ...   that's not what we're about .. we arn't cowards that need to spy on our own countrymen in fear,.... are we?


Does it bother me that the FBI is investigating groups that participate in events that destroy public property, private property, and injure citizens and public servants?

Nope, not in the least bit.
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Offline Maverick

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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2003, 02:37:51 PM »
The point is they are not assuming anything. They are merely keeping an eye on a situation that could have negative consequences. If they did not then when a situation developed an accusation for doing nothing would be brought since they didn't prevent it from happening. Similar to the 9/11 critics who are now claiming the govt. is responsible for not preventing the attack.

Merely surveiling is not a search. Your implication of a warrantless search is invalid in the scope of the article you linked. You are reading more into the article that was stated.
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Offline Dinger

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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2003, 03:46:51 PM »
so I'm assuming you guys are okay with being downgraded from citizen to potential criminal suspect.
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Offline Martlet

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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2003, 03:57:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dinger
so I'm assuming you guys are okay with being downgraded from citizen to potential criminal suspect.


Yeah?  Can you point me to where you saw my name on that list?  You've never seen me at any protest that turned violent.
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Offline Shamus

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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2003, 10:48:38 AM »
"We're not concerned with individuals who are exercising their constitutional rights," one F.B.I. official said. "But it's obvious that there are individuals capable of violence at these events. We know that there are anarchists that are actively involved in trying to sabotage and commit acts of violence at these different events, and we also know that these large gatherings would be a prime target for terrorist groups.

I suppose this statement could apply to any large group...sporting event, political rally, parade etc.

shamus
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Offline Martlet

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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2003, 10:53:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shamus


I suppose this statement could apply to any large group...sporting event, political rally, parade etc.

shamus


Sure, any large group where assault, vandalism, and destruction of property (public and private) were the rule, not the exception.
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Offline Stringer

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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2003, 11:00:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
Sure, any large group where assault, vandalism, and destruction of property (public and private) were the rule, not the exception.


Like when the Gaydors used to win.
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Offline Dago

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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2003, 11:04:05 AM »
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The point is they are assumeing that these people are guilty of vandalism, assault, arson



Freaking hippies, lock em all up!  :D


Seriously, if the FBI didn't excerise a little caution and kept an eye on these people, and they did something nasty, there would be a line of people ready to blast them for doing nothing.  They provide a little (legal) surveilance, and you complain.  FBI just can't win with some people.

Doesn't bother me if they keep an eye on the protestors, and if they protestors are not up to or planning anything illegal and just are excercising their right to lawful demostration, they shouldn't be bothered by it either.

dago
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Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2003, 11:35:07 AM »
Gee I can't understand why the FBI and the police would take an interest in people who create pro-terrorist riots.
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Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2003, 11:37:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Gee I can't understand why the FBI and the police would take an interest in people who create pro-terrorist riots.


:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Offline Mini D

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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2003, 11:46:51 AM »
I do believe the article is a little misleading.

"War protestors"

I'd have a tendancy to say Waco, Oklahoma City, the WTO and the ELF are also reasons behind this... not everything has to do with war protestors, though many cross back and forth.

The attempt to deal with domestic terrorism was also included in recent efforts.  Not all of it his religious, nor has anything to do with the Middle East.

MiniD
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