HOs

[Wardog]

Love this kinda info  


Lieutenant Commander John S. "Jimmy" Thach, commanding Navy Fighter Squadron (VF) 3, had already abandoned the Navy's outmoded three-plane formation, modeled on that of the British Royal Air Force, in favor of the German Luftwaffe's "fluid-four" formation of two 2-plane elements flying loosely abreast. When attacked, each element (or each plane in an element) would turn toward the other. Any Zero following inevitably found itself attacked head-on. Dubbed the "Thach Weave," this maneuver was an anathema to Japanese pilots, who disdained teamwork, and it proved their undoing.

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-= Death From Behind =-

[This message has been edited by Wardog (edited 05-04-2000).]

[easymo]

 I too must confess to being an HO dweeb. Once i decided there going to happen, like it or not,I began to study them a little. Ive come to the point where I belive it is one of the most skilled shots in the game. The danger is obvious. what is less obvious is that the planes have strenths and weekness,s. For example, you can exploit the P38,s compression. If you judge his speed to be fast, you can increase it by diveing down than pulling up at the last moment. If he is compressing he wont be able to follow your move back up that quick. The P51 all you have to do is keep moveing around. they cant put enough ammo into you, with a snap shot to do any real harm. Ive found ways of dealing with all the planes except the spit. It has lazor guns. And the 2 50,s are stronger thatn the p51,s 6 50,s. Its 2 20s are as strong as the 1c,s 4 20,s. The solution is, dont ho spits in anything.

[-towd_]

man i want some of what easymo is smokin. spit guns as strong as a hog lol.

[Ripsnort]

HiTech said it best  about HO's in his interview:

Head-ons are a very real tactic but with like planes is not a good pilot's first choice because it is just eliminates ACM skill and is a test of gunnery skill.  To eliminate it causes just as many problems because its elimination creates a perfect but non-real defense to e fighting tactics.

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 05-05-2000).]

[miko2d]

 That is a load of BS that japanese pilots disdained teamwork. Or that Thach weave has anything to do with the LW formation.
 First of all, LW formation was more offencive then defencive and involved four planes, not two.
 Second, Thach weave was just the only way for slow unmaneuvrable american planes (f4f) to ever get a japanese plane into their gunsights.
 Using it as an offencive tactics would involve one pilot patiently offering his armored 6 to the enemy fire hoping to survive long enough for his friend to take a shot - not an american way to fight a war. Rather it was a defencive move - hoping that the jap would break off his attack rather then risk HO. Not that americans really preferred HO - after all japanese had cannons and a couple of shells into the windshield would ruin everybody's day. It was just the only way to take any shot at all.
 Once americans got a faster plane (f6f) they forgot about Thach weave or any kind of turning with japanese and switched to highly effective BnZ style.

miko--

[CavemanJ]

the Thach Weave gives the 'bagger' a front quartering shot, NOT a direct HO, unless you and your wingman seperate when you break away from each other for the first part of the weave.  Then you may end up with a direct HO (hopefully before he kills your wingman).  I've used the weave with a few different wingies and had good success with it  

[Westy]

"That is a load of BS that japanese pilots disdained teamwork"

 Well. Maybe not disdain teamwork. That might be harsh, but they DID train for individual effort.  Even Saburo Sakai admits in his books the failure of the Japanee pilots to work as a cohesive team in the first half of the war against the Allied pilots. Even then, in the decisive first year of fighting the Allies took a whooping in the air. But so did they IJN and IJAAF because of tactics - or lack there of. Imagine what could have happened had the Japanese all had radios and had utilised group tactics early on?  Not "wingman covering the master" tactics, but real squad tactics.

  -Westy