Author Topic: Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades  (Read 2943 times)

Offline Holden McGroin

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2003, 08:48:26 AM »
Quote

Companies' Productivity Soars 9.4 Percent
 
(AP) - Productivity of U.S. companies rocketed at a 9.4 percent annual rate in the third quarter, the best showing in 20 years, offering an encouraging sign that the economic resurgence will be lasting. The increase in productivity — the amount an employee produces per hour of work — reported by the Labor Department on Wednesday was even stronger than the 8.1 percent pace initially estimated for the July-to-September quarter a month ago and was up from a 7 percent growth rate posted in the second quarter of this year.


Just more and more bad news...
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Offline miko2d

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2003, 09:38:10 AM »
Kappa, you just have to contend that some people are idiots that have no desire to learn what things mean. They would trust their religious leader for an opinion whether some item of data means that "things are gettin better" or worse or does not mean anything at all.
 Of course they would hotly insist that exactly the same statistics under different administration represented a bubble and unsustainable investment but you cannot really refute their matter of religious faith with logic.


 One thing that the FED can control directly is the adjusted monetary base . That statistic indicates rising monetary expansion with temporary contraction in August. The increase, year to year, is about 6%.
(The adjusted monetary base is the sum of Federal Reserve deposits and vault cash held by domestic depository institutions,currency held by the public, and an adjustment for the effect of changes in reserve requirement).

The statistic known as money of zero maturity is up by 6.6% over the full year, but falling since August.

The more traditional M-2 . Same pattern: up by over 5% year to year, but falling since August.

Short-term interest rates have remained in the 1% range – very low. The FED is increasing the money supply but it does not seem to be growing of lately. The economy, we are being told, is growing. This would indicate that businesses should be borrowing in order to expand operations. But if the money supply is actually falling, and if increased demand places upward pressure on interest rates, then why hasn’t the federal funds rate increased?

There seems to be a problem with the assumption of increasing demand for loans. So let's look at the figures for bank loans. Bank credit rose to 12% above the previous year’s level in the first half of 2003, but then fell back to around 7%. Total loans and leases in bank credit at commercial banks rose in mid-year to 10% above the previous year, but then fell back to about 6%.

But when we look at commercial and industrial loans at commercial banks and surprise! This statistic went negative in mid-2001, and it has yet to recover. It fell throughout the first half of 2002 to a negative 8%, then got better to negative 5%, briefly, in mid-2003. Since then, it has fallen back to negative 7%.

 People are borrowing at an increased clip but those ain't no businesses!
 The commercial and industrial business community has been unwilling to commit to major increases in debt in order to finance new projects. Businessmen have been cautious in further indebting their companies. There was some optimism through the first half of the year, but this optimism seems to be fading.
 So the businesses are in no hurry to borrow and I do not remember a recent flood of IPOs either. Foreign direct investment? The numbers tell the different story.
 How can business increase production without added investment? Right, by using up the capital. So the consumers are borrowing for current consumption while businesses are burning their capital. Why are they doing that? I don't know. Maybe they do not care to create/replace the physical capital anymore because once the factory is worn out, they will close it and move production abroad or just invest the money in China.

 It seems to me - subject to further evidence, of course – that the economic recovery has been based a traditional response to classic Keynesian/supply-side deficit-financed stimuli: a large increase in military spending coupled with a mild tax cut.

 When your unemployed son borrows money in the bank and buys a car, it is very different than when he earns the same money with his labor. To an ignorant like Rude all that is seen is another car in the street - an increase in GDP.
 Which may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on where the wealth came from but he has no inclination to inquire which.

Productivity of U.S. companies rocketed at a 9.4 percent annual rate in the third quarter

 Labor productivity increase is another factor that does not mean anything without explanation how it was obtained. When the workers are fired, the labor productivity increases greatly because the worst workers are fired first, the remaining ones work harder and amount fo capital per remaining worker is greater.

 With raising employment going on but scarcely capital creation, the productivity should fall temporarily because inexperienced people are joining the process and need some time to adjust. Also, the capital per worker decreases.

 Of course if there is not much employment raise, then the productity increase would be explained by existing under-utilised workers and capital being employed more hours. Which begs the question - how come the businesses had unutilised labor and capital as dead asset? And the answer may be that those were the excesses of the previous boom that misallocated and wasted resources that could have been better invested used elsewhere in sustainable projects.

 miko

Offline midnight Target

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2003, 10:28:04 AM »
Our orders are up..

So is our OT and I'm busier than chit!!


I blame Bush.

Offline Dnil

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2003, 10:49:22 AM »
unemployed over a year now.....when is the booming economy coming my way?

Offline kappa

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2003, 10:59:21 AM »
Excellent post Miko. Would you relate todays economic outlook to that of the Reagan era with this route of supply side economics and military spending?

The foreign investment in U.S. Treasuries fell to $5 billion in September from August's $25 billion. The average monthly figure for the last 12 months as been around $40 billion. Any way you cut this data, it all says the same thing - the U.S. is finding it difficult to finance their Current Account Deficit, which means only one thing - the dollar must fall further.

Could you expand on this topic? I'm wondering what will be other tell tell signs the Fed is having trouble financing it's debt? And, as the dollar falls in value, lets say the Fed does not increase the Funds Rate, productivity stays about the same, and national debt is ignored, what will happen to the dollar?? What will happen to the avg joe on the street holding a $5 bill?

Short-term interest rates have remained in the 1% range – very low. The FED is increasing the money supply but it does not seem to be growing of lately. The economy, we are being told, is growing. This would indicate that businesses should be borrowing in order to expand operations. But if the money supply is actually falling, and if increased demand places upward pressure on interest rates, then why hasn’t the federal funds rate increased?

Forgive me for any stupidity. I have graduated college with a economic degree, but im afraid I might have trouble holding a intellectual conversation with you on the subject.

Where would you think this money is going? Certainly not investments in america...  Could this money simply be given to public creditors and in return foreign investors? I would guess myself that the avg. joe is not saving it.

Inflation is the result of the fed injecting too much money supply in the economy?? How else will the Fed look to finance it's debt??

k
AoM
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Offline muckmaw

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2003, 11:09:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dnil
unemployed over a year now.....when is the booming economy coming my way?


What is your profession, DNIL?

Offline kappa

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2003, 11:09:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
Had to quote that one kappa.  A gem of glaring stupidity such as this doesn't come around ever day.  Calling rude self-righteous only adds icing to the cake.

MiniD


Thanks, I think.... I'm not sure how to take this... I can only hope MY stupidy is not glaring... I DO try to conceal it.. 8)

k
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Offline Saurdaukar

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2003, 11:39:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by muckmaw
I'm thinking about buying gold. Anyone have any thoughts?;)


SHould have bought it around April.

Offline miko2d

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2003, 11:54:09 AM »
Kappa, if you've graduated with a mainstream economics degree, you could certainly use a remedial course in real (Austrian school) economics. Just make sure you can compartmentalise and play along with your employers' usual Keynesian crap while professing the free markets in private - just like Alan Greenspan does. :)

 Start at http://www.mises.org and go from there. A single book as introduction to Austrian economics is "Economics for real people" by Gene Callahan. The classic "Economics in one lesson" by Hazlitt is even simpler but you must already be versed in main concepts of economics, so you could skip it.

 means only one thing - the dollar must fall further.
Could you expand on this topic?


 Very basically, the growth if indstry happens when capital increases and that happnes when people abstain forom consumption and invested savved resources.
 The abstaining from consumption does not mean abstaining from buying - it only means that people buy less stuff to be consumed and buy more production factors - capital. So the government's policy of encouraging consumption and discouraging savings are patently wrong.

 The US consumets were not saving but instead borrowing money for current consumption - a big no-no! The economy was growing nevertheless. So who the heck was providing the resources for both consumption and capital creation? Right - the foreign savers.

 They sent us $500 billion a year worth of goods and materials getting dollars in exchange - current account deficit.
 Those dollars they stored in the form of cach, US treasuries or invested back into US directly. So the capital account surplus compensated the current account defdicit and the dollar did not fall.
 It would have been great if US used all those subcidies (I was rebuked fro using the word "tribute") for investment into capital, but instead we used most of it for consumption. As a result we lost major chunks of our production where there was foreign competition (cannot compete with free goods). What remains is very inefficient (that includes illiterale school grads, few technical grads, affirmative action, litigation, environazism and regulation) but can exist due to being subcidised and lack of competition - and would fall as soon as subcidies are removed.

 The problem is that as of late few years, the majority of dollar buying was done not by private investors expecting to earn profit from US but by foreitn central banks colluding with their export lobbies and their export sectors. Those inflows are much less assured than normal market-driven investments can stop any time they decide they have enough of foreign reserves or that inflation imported from US is hurting them - like it does in China or did to Asia in 97.

 The foreign investment numbers indicate that may already be taking place. If we keep shoving dollars at them and they are less willing to buy them and thake them out of circulation as they did - the dollar will fall.


Where would you think this money is going?

 There are two parts to the mechanism of fiat money creation in US. The Federal Reserve just prints money (by monetising government's debt). Then the fractional-reserve bank system multiplies that primary stock (within the fed-specified reserve requirements). So the fed and the banks both create money and that money would cause inflation if they were not taken away by foreigners in exchgane for real goods.

 Now, if the fed prints more money and eases reserve requirements, that means the banks may create money (not backed by goods) and loan them out - thus driving another boom-bust cycle.
 But if the businesses are not willing to borrow that money even at low interest - because they see no way to make profit in current anti-business envoronment - the money will just lay there in the bank. The banks will have deposits above minimum reserves but no takers - just like it happened in 1930s in US or like it is happening in Japan. Japanese are buying dollars  - over $100 billion a year by printing yen but they still have deflation going because the money is not being loaned - and that is a good thing for them, whatever keynesians claim.

 So with americans consuming more and forigners investing less, we may expect reduction in our stock of capital - and eventual drop in productivity and production and consumption. Also, not being able to export inflation we would have... inflation, unless the Fed clamps up and we get a mother of all recessions - which would be a good thing for an economy (as it would correct the past misallocations of capital) but not for administration in power.

 Can Greenspan ensure inflation or receccion do not hapen untill after 2004 elections? Would the foreign central banks cooperate? Who knows.

 Unlike Bush, Reagan did try to clamp down on spending and slowed it's growth considerably - especially non-military spending. Bush just increased spending - taking more resources out of the private economy, while reducing taxes. He basically printed money to buy stuff for the government and to give taxpayers to buy stuff too but there is no actuall srtuff to buy with that money - unless foreigners oblige and send us more imports.
 Curiously, Bush is going out of his way (or at least pretends to, judjing by the latest Snow report) to dissuade foreigners "unfairily" giving us more cheap imports to back newly printed money - thus making sure that the tax refund money he is giving us can buy less stuff.

 Bush has even less clue about the economics than even Rude here.
Which is not ment as a slander on Bush - none of the presidents over the past 100 years ever had a clue. Even Reagan was just reading aloud what Jack Kemp learned from Jude Wannisky who in turn got it from real economists - Arthur Laffer and Robert Mundell.
 Kennedy was praised as the first implementer of "reaganomics" but he got his economic wits after visiting Ludwig Erhard in Germany and inquiring what made the "german miracle" work.

 miko

Offline miko2d

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2003, 12:01:45 PM »
Saurdaukar: SHould have bought it around April.

 Who was that posting about gold on this board in January and really cranking up the gold theme since March? Was it Maveric? :)

 miko

Offline Dnil

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2003, 12:17:08 PM »
I was an engineering tech for exxonmobil, now I am a bum, lol.

Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2003, 12:39:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by muckmaw
I'm thinking about buying gold. Anyone have any thoughts?;)


Guys, I was not serious.

Offline miko2d

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2003, 01:04:26 PM »
muckmaw: Guys, I was not serious.

 For the long term, I'd say go for it. There is no way for US not to have a major inflation withing the next 20 years, even without wars and terrorism. When those baby boomers come in to cash their SSA, Medicare and drug benefits what do you think the Govt. would do - default on its obligations or print more money?

 In the short term, the Fed can create and destroy dollars thus holding their value, the foreign central banks can buy more or less of them and also sell some of their gold, thus driving it's price down like they did in 1997. That would bee a buying opportunity.

 Untill we see a real inflation, the cost of gold production is about $300 per ounce though the volume of production cannot be rapidly increased, unlike many other commodities.

 I would not advise you to speculate with gold since the transaction cost is about 4.5% - two year worth of inflation damage. I would advise making a stash for a rainy day. Buy a few coins and put in your safe deposit box. If you buy for more than $1000, it becomes an investment and you do not pay a sales tax. If you buy for less than $10,000 and bring cash, there is no record or reporting requirements on the part of the sellers. US Gold Eagles, Krugerrands and canadian Maple Leaves are most common. Maple leaves are .9999 gold and have to be handled with care while the other two are 22 carat (92%) gold - a bit larger and heavier but less suceptible to wear.

 For specualtion you can open a gold pool account at http://www.kitco.com/ or elsewhere. There are no coinage fees unless you decide to take delivery and very little spread (buying at $402.10 and selling at $405.60 now).

 Or you can open an FDIC insured currency account at Everbank (http://www.everbank.com) and earn interest (4.2% Aussie and NZ) as well as capital gain on other currencies when dollar is going down. They only charge 0.75% for conversion and no other fees.
 
 miko

Offline slimm50

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2003, 04:21:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
.... One thing that the FED can control directly is the adjusted monetary base . That statistic indicates rising monetary expansion with temporary contraction in August. The increase, year to year, is about 6%.
(The adjusted monetary base is the sum of Federal Reserve deposits and vault cash held by domestic depository institutions,currency held by the public, and an adjustment for the effect of changes in reserve requirement).

The statistic known as money of zero maturity is up by 6.6% over the full year, but falling since August.

The more traditional M-2 . Same pattern: up by over 5% year to year, but falling since August.

Short-term interest rates have remained in the 1% range – very low. The FED is increasing the money supply but it does not seem to be growing of lately. The economy, we are being told, is growing. This would indicate that businesses should be borrowing in order to expand operations. But if the money supply is actually falling, and if increased demand places upward pressure on interest rates, then why hasn’t the federal funds rate increased?

There seems to be a problem with the assumption of increasing demand for loans. So let's look at the figures for bank loans. Bank credit rose to 12% above the previous year’s level in the first half of 2003, but then fell back to around 7%. Total loans and leases in bank credit at commercial banks rose in mid-year to 10% above the previous year, but then fell back to about 6%.

But when we look at commercial and industrial loans at commercial banks and surprise! This statistic went negative in mid-2001, and it has yet to recover. It fell throughout the first half of 2002 to a negative 8%, then got better to negative 5%, briefly, in mid-2003. Since then, it has fallen back to negative 7%.

 People are borrowing at an increased clip but those ain't no businesses!
 The commercial and industrial business community has been unwilling to commit to major increases in debt in order to finance new projects. Businessmen have been cautious in further indebting their companies. There was some optimism through the first half of the year, but this optimism seems to be fading.
 So the businesses are in no hurry to borrow and I do not remember a recent flood of IPOs either. Foreign direct investment? The numbers tell the different story.
 How can business increase production without added investment? Right, by using up the capital. So the consumers are borrowing for current consumption while businesses are burning their capital. Why are they doing that? I don't know. Maybe they do not care to create/replace the physical capital anymore because once the factory is worn out, they will close it and move production abroad or just invest the money in China.

 It seems to me - subject to further evidence, of course – that the economic recovery has been based a traditional response to classic Keynesian/supply-side deficit-financed stimuli: a large increase in military spending coupled with a mild tax cut.

 When your unemployed son borrows money in the bank and buys a car, it is very different than when he earns the same money with his labor. To an ignorant like Rude all that is seen is another car in the street - an increase in GDP.
 Which may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on where the wealth came from but he has no inclination to inquire which.

Productivity of U.S. companies rocketed at a 9.4 percent annual rate in the third quarter

 Labor productivity increase is another factor that does not mean anything without explanation how it was obtained. When the workers are fired, the labor productivity increases greatly because the worst workers are fired first, the remaining ones work harder and amount fo capital per remaining worker is greater.

 With raising employment going on but scarcely capital creation, the productivity should fall temporarily because inexperienced people are joining the process and need some time to adjust. Also, the capital per worker decreases.

 Of course if there is not much employment raise, then the productity increase would be explained by existing under-utilised workers and capital being employed more hours. Which begs the question - how come the businesses had unutilised labor and capital as dead asset? And the answer may be that those were the excesses of the previous boom that misallocated and wasted resources that could have been better invested used elsewhere in sustainable projects.

 miko

Miko, that's as erudite a discourse on macroeconomics as I've ever heard in any college lecture. Thanks. But, sometimes, one cannot see the forest for the frikkin' trees. You (generically speaking) can analyze the economy and politics out the wazoo (so-to-speak), and the one thing that can bring to naught all economists and politicians' prognostications in consumer confidence/ consumer reaction. That's because it's the one thing that is most unpredictable. At least, that's how I see it. What ya think? I'm listening.
slim03

Offline Rude

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Manufacturing at Highest Level in Two Decades
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2003, 04:51:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by kappa
Pathetic rude?? Obviously your one to recognize pathetic....

What is pathetic, however, is the fact that the present economic agenda supporters have to grasp at anything they can find that might possibly draw a brighter picture on this record high defecit/debt our country has incurred under our leader's policies..

God, myself, and the entire country hope it gets better Rude... Dont be such a self rightous asss..............

k
AoM


and I would be a self rightous asss because.....?