Author Topic: Name This...(697) (Read 1255 times)

Widewing · « **Reply #15 on:** December 03, 2003, 07:12:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Reschke
Do you have proof?

Peiper was never a member of the Nazi party. He was convicted of war crimes relating to the Malmedy massacre and sentenced to death. His death sentence was later commuted due to serious irregularities in the trial. He was released from prison in 1956. He was murdered in 1976 when someone tossed a fire bomb into his house. "A group of Frenchmen, wearing ski masks were photographed as they announced 'We got Peiper.'"

My regards,

Widewing

brady · « **Reply #16 on:** December 03, 2003, 07:12:59 PM »

Were they? I thought some of the Forgine Volintears for the SS were not nesasearily Nazi's, the French SS, the Muselems in the SS, the Scandavians ect ( and some of the Germans as well).

Guppy35 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 03, 2003, 07:18:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing
Peiper was never a member of the Nazi party. He was convicted of war crimes relating to the Malmedy massacre and sentenced to death. His death sentence was later commuted due to serious irregularities in the trial. He was released from prison in 1956. He was murdered in 1976 when someone tossed a fire bomb into his house. "A group of Frenchmen, wearing ski masks were photographed as they announced 'We got Peiper.'"

My regards,

Widewing

According to who Widewing? This is a guy who was part of Hitler's bodyguard. Not much chance of him having that much status in the Leibstandarte without swearing his loyalty to Hitler and the Nazi party. They were after all Hitler's political army.

"He entered Waffen-SS training in 1935, and was commissioned SS-Rottenführer soon afterwards. He started officer training for the Leibstandarte in the same year, and was commisioned SS-Unterführer on 25 February 1936.

In 1938 he was posted to the staff of Heinrich Himmler, in which he transported messages and arranged meetings to take place. He met his wife, Sigurd, who was working as one of Himmler's secretaries. They married on the 26.9.39, and had three children; Hinrich, Elke and Silke."

This guy's hanging out with Himmler and is part of Hitler's bodyguard but he wasn't a Nazi? I find that one a bit hard to believe

Dan/Slack

Guppy35 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 03, 2003, 07:39:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by brady
Were they? I thought some of the Forgine Volintears for the SS were not nesasearily Nazi's, the French SS, the Muselems in the SS, the Scandavians ect ( and some of the Germans as well).

Required of every SS man regardless of where they came from:

"The Oath of the SS Man :
"I swear to you, Adolf Hitler, as Fuehrer and Reichschancellor, loyalty and bravery. I vow to you, and to those you have named to command me, obedience unto death, so help me God."

Not an oath to Germany, but to Adolf Hitler. Kinda scary

Dan/Slack

Reschke · « **Reply #19 on:** December 03, 2003, 08:59:34 PM »

Dan/Slack you are right he wasn't categorizing everyone but sooner or later you will see someone write that all members of Germany's military were Nazi's. Its been written here and other boards over and over and to me that is plain wrong. Learn about the past and don't forget it.

Lastly. If Peiper wasn't a Nazi then so be it. If he was then so be it. I was likewise under the impression that to be a member of the Liebenstandarte you were required to be a member of good standing within the party.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 03, 2003, 09:35:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Reschke
Dan/Slack you are right he wasn't categorizing everyone but sooner or later you will see someone write that all members of Germany's military were Nazi's. Its been written here and other boards over and over and to me that is plain wrong. Learn about the past and don't forget it.

Lastly. If Peiper wasn't a Nazi then so be it. If he was then so be it. I was likewise under the impression that to be a member of the Liebenstandarte you were required to be a member of good standing within the party.

We are on the same page Reschke. Most of the regular LW and Wehrmacht folks were doing their jobs too. No one should use such a broad brush as to paint all Germans of that time as Nazi's

And Widewing, I suppose he may have not actually carried a Nazi Party card in his wallet, but swearing an allegiance to Adolf Hitler is essentially the same thing if not worse and there is no doubt he did that.

Dan/Slack

Arlo · « **Reply #21 on:** December 03, 2003, 09:49:28 PM »

Guess we gotta be careful in who we accuse AND who we defend, skipper.

p.s. I've known Dan for a few years (virtually) not just in AH (and earlier AW) but on a newsgroup where we cuss and discuss everything from politics to religion to sports to games to WWII to techie stuff to snippets from our personal lives to just plain `ol sillyness. Throughout this time he's impressed me with his:

1: Sincerity

2: Knowledge of historical and technical aspects concerning WWII aircraft as well as the war in general. (And I certainly envy the fact that he's not only corrosponded with WWII pilots and crewmen but has met and formed friendships with many of them.)

3: Forthright point of view on all matters whether I agree with them or not.

4: Compassion for others.

5: Sense of humor.

Pretty much the same things that impress me about you, skipper.

I think you guys should get along fine.

Widewing · « **Reply #22 on:** December 03, 2003, 11:07:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
According to who Widewing?

According to Nazi party records, according to the testimony at his trial, according to author and WWII historian Charles Whiting, according to author, journalist and historian Gerald Astor, and according to anyone who researched Peiper. Probably the easiest book for you to locate in a public library is Astor's "A Blood- Dimmed Tide". See page 97.

He never joined the Nazi party because he felt political affiliations were not appropriate for career soldiers. He did join the Hitler Youth as a teenager, but so did millions of other German boys.

No one is saying that Peiper was without responsibility. He surely was, if for no other reason, due to his intimate knowledge of Nazi atrocities. But the fact remains that he was never a member of the Nazi party. He was not involved in SS politics, although he saw the inside workings of the organization like few ever did.

My regards,

Widewing

Guppy35 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 03, 2003, 11:45:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing
According to Nazi party records, according to the testimony at his trial, according to author and WWII historian Charles Whiting, according to author, journalist and historian Gerald Astor, and according to anyone who researched Peiper. Probably the easiest book for you to locate in a public library is Astor's "A Blood- Dimmed Tide". See page 97.

He never joined the Nazi party because he felt political affiliations were not appropriate for career soldiers. He did join the Hitler Youth as a teenager, but so did millions of other German boys.

No one is saying that Peiper was without responsibility. He surely was, if for no other reason, due to his intimate knowledge of Nazi atrocities. But the fact remains that he was never a member of the Nazi party. He was not involved in SS politics, although he saw the inside workings of the organization like few ever did.

My regards,

Widewing

My mistake was saying specifically he was card carrying member of the Nazi party. Once again, anyone who served in the 1st SS, Leibstandarte, clearly were political soldiers, who gave their oath to Hitler. They were not just common everyday German GIs doing their bit.

The SS were the military arm of the Nazi party. The Liebstandarte were the bodyguards of Adolf Hitler. In most people's books that would make Peiper a Nazi too.

Quoting again from an earlier post of mine

From "Soldiers of Destruction" by Charles Sydnor.

"SS soldiers attended several lectures weekly and were told repeatedly that the goal of their training was to shape them into political soldiers of the fuhrer

Political training was divided into three broad areas. The first dealt with the history of the Nazi Party, and included an examination of the party program. The second involved the history and racial beliefs of the SS. The third and most important part required a careful analysis of the enemies of National Socialism. In order of importance these were: 1-Jews, 2-Fremasonry, 3-Bolshevism and 4-The churches."

As someone else said, if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck....

Dan/Slack

davidpt40 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 04, 2003, 01:58:17 AM »

Whether or not they had a 'nazi card' in their pocket or not did not matter. German troops were fighting for Hitler. Hitler was executing millions of people according to Nazi doctrine. So in essence, all German troops were fighting for Nazi doctrine and therefore could be construed (sic) as Nazis.

The only people this did not apply too was those forced to fight (POWs, objectors, etc).

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #25 on:** December 04, 2003, 02:33:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by davidpt40
Whether or not they had a 'nazi card' in their pocket or not did not matter. German troops were fighting for Hitler. Hitler was executing millions of people according to Nazi doctrine. So in essence, all German troops were fighting for Nazi doctrine and therefore could be construed (sic) as Nazis.

The only people this did not apply too was those forced to fight (POWs, objectors, etc).

All thaty death and you are bad mouthing them? Whats wrong with you today?

mipoikel · « **Reply #26 on:** December 04, 2003, 03:50:52 AM »

There has been, and maybe still are, SS-men in US army.

And they were not nazis...

Read this book:Soldier Under Three Flags

Törni homepage

spitfire708 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 04, 2003, 03:50:39 PM »

Damn i just wrote it as messing around didnt mean for evryone to start arguing. but go ahead if u guys want to cz its fun reading ur arguements.

spitfire708 · « **Reply #28 on:** December 04, 2003, 03:50:39 PM »

Damn i just wrote it as messing around didnt mean for evryone to start arguing. but go ahead if u guys want to cz its fun reading ur arguements.

spitfire708 · « **Reply #29 on:** December 04, 2003, 03:51:23 PM »

lol Submit reply button got stuck now i submitted 2.