Author Topic: ok smarties (Read 813 times)

Leslie · « **Reply #15 on:** December 04, 2003, 12:08:02 AM »

First thing to do is make sure they are stored archivally, not in cardboard (acid) or non archival plastic page holders. Recommend using foam core and sandwiching the documents between sheets cut to size...one document per two sheets. Avoid handling them too much, and hold by the edges to keep fingerprints off of them. Use a folded over small piece of paper as a pair of tongs to pick up and handle carefully. Most paper back then was rag paper made from cotton, not wood pulp. So the paper should last hundreds of years if stored properly.

As suggested, ARS would be a good place to find out their monetary value. There are maritime museums which may be interested in the U.S.S. Constitution orders.

If you decide to frame some of these for your den or study, be sure to take them to the most reputable framing shop in town, and have them archivally framed with archival mat board and foam core backing. A 8"x 10" document with a 3" mat and wood frame should run about $100.00 give or take. Money well spent, imo.

Les

JB73 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2003, 12:14:46 AM »

dnil.. you gonna be rich someday my son (isn't that from a movie or something?) LOL

dud i bet they collectively are worth 6 figures easy from the sounds of it.

Dnil · « **Reply #17 on:** December 04, 2003, 12:32:18 AM »

well everything is confederate so far. The relatives were in the confederacy. Found another order for my relative to meet with captain perry from the schooner madison....wonder which perry that was.

That land grant is really kind of cool still has the wax seal on it, like you see in the movies. Also some naturalized citizen papers from the early 1800s.

Dinger · « **Reply #18 on:** December 04, 2003, 01:30:42 AM »

Dnil -- first thing: photograph the lot, front and back.
Get really good photographs. If you are incapable of getting good digital or film photographs, email me, and I will contact someone to photograph them for you.
Secondly, determine what the documents are. Catalog them by: Date, Issuing Authority and Recipient. (Old school diplomatic form is: (Issuing Authority/Recipient/Description/Action to be taken/Date and Authentication/Witnesses).

Once you determine what the documents are, you can start hunting for an authority who will know how to deal with the documents. If we're talking Texas documents, the state historical society will be able to inform you. They have professionals who deal with such documentation all the time.
Please note, they're not necessarily experts on the sale value of it, but if you ask me, the cash you're getting out of ebay is insignificant compared to the historical value. In any case, if they are worth something, you'd find that out from a discussion with a professional. At that point, the big auction houses (christies, sothebys) have professionals who can help you out.

As far as the 1.5 mil goes, don't get your hopes up. There are tons and tons of documents out there. Chances are their historical value is greater than their economic value. Of course, you can always sell them to some sucker. Just be sure you get photographs so some beancounter historian can make use of them. You have no idea how frustrating it is for an historian to know that a unique manuscript document is out there, but inaccessible because someone thought they could make a buck. Of course, it's worse for those of us who deal with really old stuff, because we know how few documents that enter private collections ever survive fires, floods, thefts and mutilations. I just lost one last year;oh the owner respected academia, and wanted to cut us a deal, $20k straight up. The university stated that was 350% over value and declined. It sold at Christies for $60k.

The kicker in that deal was that the manuscript was spotted by a Yale art history graduate student at a new england used book store on the $50 table.

She was stupid enough not to buy it, but to tell the bookstore owner what he had.

Anyway, I digress. Photograph your stuff. Catalog it. Find the authority involved. It's not wrong to want to profit from it -- just remember us historians and get those photos.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 04, 2003, 01:42:18 AM »

Burn it. Who wants those dirty old things.

rpm · « **Reply #20 on:** December 04, 2003, 02:11:57 AM »

I have a complete mint condition "Kelloggs Junior G-Man Kit" from 1933. It's still in the envelope it was mailed in.

Leslie · « **Reply #21 on:** December 04, 2003, 02:16:42 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by rpm371
I have a complete mint condition "Kelloggs Junior G-Man Kit" from 1933. It's still in the envelope it was mailed in.

What does the kit include?

Les

rpm · « **Reply #22 on:** December 04, 2003, 02:29:39 AM »

It has a magnifying glass, fingerprint kit, field notebook and an Official J. Edgar Hoover Junior G-Man Badge. I think there is some more stuff, but I'd have to dig it out of the attic. I found it when we were cleaning out my Grandmother's house.

Dnil · « **Reply #23 on:** December 04, 2003, 09:36:35 AM »

Its all been scanned in a few years back....the problem I am having now is actually finding someone to talk to.

Its not like you can go through the phone book and find an appraiser for this stuff. Old furniture sure, they are everywhere.

muckmaw · « **Reply #24 on:** December 04, 2003, 09:51:07 AM »

Dnil-

You can try typing in key words on E-bay and see what similar documents went for.

I do this alot.

As for it's value, it's only worth what someone will pay for it.

gofaster · « **Reply #25 on:** December 04, 2003, 09:59:10 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dnil
so far nothing really jumps out at me from the collection. Couple things signed by martin van buren. spanish land grant for some land in natchez mississippi from 1793. orders for a relative to report to the uss constitution in 1839 or 1841, cant remember.

Lots of his orders actually. a small stapled book from a col. right after the civil war. Most everything is from 1793 to 1865.

Now to find someone to say if its even worth anything.

Oh, I would wager that they are most definitely worth something, sir, if they're original and authentic materials. I would also wager that there would be quite a few museums, historians, and collectors willing to accept those items. Avoid eBay unless you want to get cheated. Most museums prefer to do business in person.

Natchez, MS has a musuem. There are quite a few in Texas, too.

The USS Constitution is still part of the US Navy - they may or may not be willing to expend funds for historical orders but you can be certain that there are ship museums that would. Mystic Seaport museum certainly would, as would the ships museum in Savannah, Georgia.

There are a number of Civil War museums that could be worth contacting as well, both public and private. The one in Pensacola, Florida, would probably be interested.

Dnil · « **Reply #26 on:** December 04, 2003, 10:27:34 AM »

ill see if i can post some pics of what i am talking about.

just need a place to host.

AWMac · « **Reply #27 on:** December 04, 2003, 10:54:06 AM »

I'll give ya $50.00 for the whole lot. I know it must be a burden for you to have all that old crap hanging around.

Dinger · « **Reply #28 on:** December 04, 2003, 11:38:39 AM »

Like I said, Issuing Authority/Recipient/date. If it's "local history", the state historical society can help you identify the documents.

Actually, people who deal in archival materials can be found at:

A) Historical Societies
B) State Archives.
Trained archivists will know a lot about your documents. The trick is to get to the right one. That's where the type of document and the date come in.
C) Dept. of Histories at research universities. Many of these have their faculty lists on line. Find someone who specializes in the region of US history and who does work of the sort. If they're from the confederacy, then you need a civil war historian. Now, to subspecialize depends on the documents. If you're sitting on a bunch of stuff pertaining to say a single family in texas during the civil war, ring up a social historian.
D) Big Museums may have people on staff who are professional researchers. Heck some museums have research archives attached.

These people will be more amenable to helping you if you state your purpose as being interested in determining the historical significance of these rather than looking to make money off it.

As for appraisals, the big auction houses employ people who do that. They're the only ones who have people capable of determining the value with any precision. Antique dealers, booksellers and the like generally don't know what they're talking about, and will rip you off and the person they sell it to.
What you need to do is find out precisely what these documents are, then you can start worry about a price tag. Properly identified, they'll fetch more money. But chances are there are tons of documents just like yours out there, and these won't make you a millionaire.

Dnil · « **Reply #29 on:** December 04, 2003, 11:49:51 AM »

hey dinger do you do this type of stuff all the time?

you have some really good information.

Right now I am not concerned really if it will make me rich. I am more concerned about finding out if these things are important plus they really need to be preserved properly.

I am using your suggestions on cataloging them right now.