Author Topic: Patriot Act and the RIAA (Read 930 times)

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **on:** December 04, 2003, 07:03:31 PM »

I was thinking this afternoon about how the Patriot Act had this entry in it:

Sec. 202. Authority to intercept wire, oral, and electronic communications relating to computer fraud and abuse offenses.

Prior to the Patriot Act, I don't see how the RIAA could of seized all of these data communication's logs without it being illegal.

This is akin to wire tapping an entire neighborhood because it is rumored that a criminal may be living there.

You may say, "But the RIAA doesn't have any jurisdiction to do this"... right, they don't. But since they pressured the government by taking their original case to trial, the government has basically said that ISPs must turn over their client's logs.

AFAIK, it doesn't have to just be an MP3 file - so long as it's a data file that "resembles" what they are searching for.

For anyone who wants to say, "BOSH SATAN", "Black helicopters, black helicopters", "aluminum foil hats!" or anything stupid like that - save it. Think this through, would the RIAA really have had any means of acquiring this information and using it against US citizens prior to the patrior act?
-SW

Gadfly · « **Reply #1 on:** December 04, 2003, 07:36:53 PM »

They didn't need the PA, all they had to do was get access to ISP logs.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #2 on:** December 04, 2003, 07:41:25 PM »

That is true, but they would have to have a good reason to get the logs.

Illegally monitoring their network traffic wouldn't count as a good reason.
-SW

Bodhi · « **Reply #3 on:** December 04, 2003, 07:59:03 PM »

AKSwulfe,

THe Patriot Act is the single largest invasion of privacy ever seen in this nation. If it is allowed to continue unabated as it is, the days of our personal freedoms are numbered...

Gadfly · « **Reply #4 on:** December 04, 2003, 08:02:13 PM »

All they had to do was join a service, note the name and ISP of a person offering songs, and request the logs from the ISP, with or with out help from the courts.

The Patriot Act, if you would take the time to read it, does very little to expand anything. It's primary goal is to expidite the process so that they are not filing briefs while the terrorists board the planes.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #5 on:** December 04, 2003, 08:07:01 PM »

I did read it Gadfly, just exactly where do you think that section of the patriot act came from?

Going onto the service and just looking at what someone is offering is hardly a legally justifiable way to mount a legal campaign against them. I can rename any 6 MB file on my hard drive to a song, and place a .mp3 at the end.

Oh wait, a bunch of artists did something similiar to that...

A police officer can't just look in someone's window, see a 9mm gun on the table and immediately presume its an illegal firearm - and enter the house without a warrant.

They do need the courts to do all the work, otherwise everything they do is illegal.
-SW

Manedew · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2003, 08:29:18 PM »

that's the problem I find with makeing rules about 1111 0000 0xf0

one's and zero's..... how can you make rules? How can you make these patterns a crime that often gets greater sentances than rapists or even murders.... this is the extreame end ... but

The RIAA is attacking people for doing something they maynot even understand .....

You think that 12 year old little girl really understood our 'society' thought that downloading was wrong?

the greatest thing about law is ... ignorance is no execuse .... I'd bet 90 % of america could be written a ticket or arrested at this very moment, if every law were to be enforced.

The USA really needs to start thinking less is more

These parasites of the legal and govermental system have gone too far ... this is just the latest symptom.

At the lower levels I've seen cops trafficing cocaine through my home town ... San Antonio ... they got caught a few years back...(this is a point of govermental orgnizations not doing thier job, in this case, an extreame oppisite. But many such orginizations are little more than a joke, and often end up 'just another Gang in gangland' [only they the biggest gang])

at higher levels they confuse and distract, often with cryptic laws like the patriot act .... computer code is easy compared to that pos...

I think we need to start at the kernel and build it up all over agin ....

The Constitution and Admendments...... Good kernel version ... but I'm tired of this windows 'manager' lol

dunno if you can follow that rant .. but has me laughing

-tronski- · « **Reply #7 on:** December 04, 2003, 08:42:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Manedew

You think that 12 year old little girl really understood our 'society' thought that downloading was wrong?

Does society?

The more the RIAA moves against these type of people, the more criticism it gains I think...

Tronsky

Raubvogel · « **Reply #8 on:** December 04, 2003, 09:37:21 PM »

hey AKSWulfe, you get my email reply?

Gadfly · « **Reply #9 on:** December 04, 2003, 09:39:55 PM »

Since they are already logged in, and the song is available for download, they do so and find that it is their intellectual property. Then they go to a Judge, show him the evidence and he makes the ISP provide logs.

I just don't see an issue, and they did not use any section of the PA to do what they did.

Bodhi · « **Reply #10 on:** December 04, 2003, 09:49:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gadfly
The Patriot Act, if you would take the time to read it, does very little to expand anything. It's primary goal is to expidite the process so that they are not filing briefs while the terrorists board the planes.

Gadfly, not to be rude, but have you read all 130+ pages of the Patriot Act? It seems to me, you have not. One of the biggest things the patriot act allows is for wire taps, video surveilance, and email interception without a court order, or the process of approval when done by a government agency. It only says that the procedure must be involved in a CRIMINAL investigation, and does not define just terrorism related incidents. That to me is a major infringement on the right to privacy and invasion of property. Now whether you choose to agree is another matter.

The one good thing the Patriot Act does do is provide for increased funding and dictates further responsibility to help eliminate turf wars between agencys.

Gadfly · « **Reply #11 on:** December 04, 2003, 10:09:20 PM »

Actually I have read all 130 pages, and each statue that was altered as well.

You must not have, however, because the specific section that you cite says nothing of the kind. A court order must still be obtained, but there is now a 24/7 judge(panel) who can sign the order instead of waiting for normal business hours, or attempting to track down an off duty judge to sign it.

Gadfly · « **Reply #12 on:** December 04, 2003, 10:11:30 PM »

I posted all of this a while back with links to the cites(on the websites), so feel free to research it yourself.

Charon · « **Reply #13 on:** December 05, 2003, 08:56:58 AM »

Quote

THe Patriot Act is the single largest invasion of privacy ever seen in this nation. If it is allowed to continue unabated as it is, the days of our personal freedoms are numbered...

Bodhi

Can't disagree here. The Patriot act is already being used in non-terrorist applications. Some think that was the intention from the beginning.

Quote

FBI says Patriot Act used in Vegas strip club corruption probe

ASSOCIATED PRESS

LAS VEGAS (AP) - The FBI used the USA Patriot Act to obtain financial information about key figures in a political corruption probe centered on striptease club owner Michael Galardi, an agent said.

Investigators used a section of the Patriot Act to get subpoenas for financial documents, said Special Agent Jim Stern, a spokesman for the Las Vegas FBI office.

"It was used appropriately by the FBI and was clearly within the legal parameters of the statute," Stern said.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal reported Tuesday that records were subpoenaed from Galardi, the owner of Jaguars in southern Nevada and Cheetah's in Las Vegas and San Diego; his lobbyist, former Clark County Commissioner Lance Malone; former Commissioner Erin Kenny; County Commission Chairwoman Mary Kincaid-Chauncey; former County Commission Chairman Dario Herrera; and Las Vegas City Councilman Michael McDonald, who lost a re-election bid in June.

The Patriot Act, passed after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, was originally touted by the government as a tool to help federal law enforcers combat and prevent terrorism.

Civil libertarians have criticized the Bush administration for employing the wide-ranging act to also crack down on drug traffickers and child pornographers.

The measure lets federal investigators seek financial records of people suspected of being terrorists or laundering money.

Malone's lawyer called it an outrage that the FBI used anti-terrorism measures in an effort to gather information on his client.

"The Patriot Act ... clearly was not intended for this," Las Vegas lawyer Dominic Gentile said.

Gary Peck, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Nevada, said the Patriot Act included provisions "that in no way had anything to do with the threat of terrorism, but could help them in your more garden variety criminal prosecutions."

Attorney Richard Wright, who represents McDonald, said he was unaware investigators had used Patriot Act powers.

"It isn't anything that's lawfully known," he said.

Federal authorities in San Diego say Galardi and Malone paid San Diego city officials to lift a ban on contact between topless dancers and their customers. Malone and three San Diego city councilmen await trial on public corruption charges.

A federal grand jury in Las Vegas also has been hearing evidence regarding allegations of public corruption in southern Nevada. No indictments have been announced in that case.

Information from: Las Vegas Review-Journal

Another link
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Nov-05-Wed-2003/news/22521283.html

Charon

Fishu · « **Reply #14 on:** December 05, 2003, 09:31:50 AM »

For the safety of freedom