Pyro is right about the HA

[hblair]

To all the guys who claim they *want* a 24/7 HA with Historical plane matchups, where are you?

I flew a sortie in the "check six" arena earlier, there were 20-30 or so people in there, had a successful sortie, with a few kills, landed. Upon replaning I discoed for some reason, got busy with other stuff, then relogged into the arena at 9:20 CST, 3 people were in there. 3!

I know, the terrain isn't inspirational as for an HA goes, but its still enjoyable.(I thought it was anyways)

3 people in the Historical matchup arena. What kinda message does that send HTC about an HA? It's on the backburner, I guarantee ya...

[funked]

There's a lot more to it than that Hblair.  This arena had an axis vs. allies setup but nothing else.

I flew in there tonight.  I left because there was no field capture, no bombers, no tanks, none of the things that make a WAR.

Axis were camping at 20k over their own field.

In the real Eastern Front, they would have been... ignored.  VVS Sturmoviks would have shredded yet another Wehrmacht motorized column.

But here the VVS had nothing else to do but engage the enemy over his own field.  Which of course was difficult, because as soon as you killed one, he would respawn.

This grew tiresome, so my squadron tried patrolling the no-man's land between the allied and axis fields, hoping they would come out to play.

But we didn't see a single Jerry.

This is not a slam on the axis players - with that arena setup there was no reason to come out.

Fighters without bombers or ground forces are like tits on a boar.

In such a scenario the only goal seems to be k/d, and the guy who climbs the highest and stays nearest his base will win the k/d contest.  Yawn.

I understand why the arena was setup as it was - the plane/vehicle set does not have the required elements to simulate the battle we were fighting.  For that we need at the bare minimum T-34, Il-2, Pe-2, Ju 87, Ju 88.  Or at least the option of bombs on the VVS fighters.

Please don't try to tell me that I got what I asked for and didn't support it.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-19-2000).]

[Hajo]

Hblair I agree.  I agree to the point where PAC aircraft such as the A6M, Nik1, etc. should be flying in an arena dedicated to pacific terrains and aircraft, this for historical accuracy.  If you've got the planes modeled correctly, lets' match them with the proper terrains.  F4U, P-51D, P-38, and the 47s' flew in the PAC arenas also. So the planeset is available for both allied and axis.  Adding more "Navy" aircraft to a basically european terrain doesn't enhance the realism.  The full realism modeling quite frankly in AH is the best I've seen.  I've flown them all (on-line sims) and my vote goes to AH, that's why I'm here.  Lets add to the realism buy placing the aircraft in the settings in which they flew during WW2.

[hblair]

Funked, citabria and I are fighting in there now, G6 vs. Yak.

Earlier, 6 or 8 of us axis were flying a sweep at 20k and got bounced by a VVS group of 8-10 planesthat were 5k higher than us, we won.  

[Nash]

"I flew in there tonight. I left because there was no field capture, no bombers, no tanks, none of the things that make a WAR."

-Funked

Exactly.

[minus]

simple !U cant play cheess with # figures !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it need imersion , the feling , is it hard imagine  a girl when u watch a sheep :-))))
 if we have about 60 or more plane and vehicles to SELEct
Everibody will find the plane  what much for him and give a funn

[RAM]

I rallied people for the first sortie. we upped 8 people and 2 joined us while flying.

I told Fw190s to level at 15k and G2s to level at 20K. I said I wont expect any russian over 15-20K as this was a russian front, and the fights should be low.

We met with a group of Yaks and Las 20-25K. I was shocked. We kicked them out of the sky pretty soon   and then we started to land and refuel. I landed at A3 with 2 kills and damage on aileron and elevator. Upped at A2 (a3 and a4 were closed for flying because a little error on CM, quickly put straight), and went north. Radio buffer started to show calls of cons 20-25K AGAIN. Even a Yak9 at 30K (!) We kicked arse again as they werent so numerous as before. But just as we killed them ,another 20K wave this time of la5s came over A3. And that was repeated time after time. We had no material time to go higher than 15K as there was another wave of 20K cons coming for us, near A3.

I even had to read someone on the buffer saying that we were hiding in ack (???!!!???). At that moment I was at 12K or so I took a look at what surrounded me. all german planes were 10K more or less. There were some red spots at 15-20Ks. And shortly after that another 20-25K La5 wave came in A3.

Funked you blame who?...Verm kept asking people to bring the fight down,as that was eastern front, still we kept on seeing  and fighting 20-25K yaks and La5s over A3.

You wont go to no mans land letting in your high 6 five or six high contacts.

Dont blame us. We did what we could, and quite well.

BTW You blame the lack of planeset?. I blame a lot the AGE of the planeset:
 
La5FN:1944
Yak9U:1944
-----------
109G2: 1942
109G6: 1943
190A5: 1943

Why didnt we have a G10? why a A8?. Running Yak9s were the norm as NO axis plane was able to follow them. Same with La5FN.

Still we did quite good ,mostly because we were flying in rotten. If someone wants the HOLE (ENTIRE) film of my stance in SEA in this event to see that what Isay is true, email me. Beware it is more than 1 hour 30 minutes and some 4 megas in zipped file.

I blame of the lack of action outside our field to the 20-25K waves of russian planes, and the lack of a 109G10.

Next time put a hard ceiling of 15K and level the planeset. Will be way funnier. (for me it was as it was)

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-19-2000).]

[Baddawg]

Well I say lets not get off track here

1) Vadr   and the rest  of the CM are going through a learning process. Its a tough road I hope he/they have tough hides because sometimes the critsism  i see is not warrented towards them . They are doing the best they can with the available tools at thier disposal.

2) More snafus are to be expected with some historical terrains being made that MIGHT be wrong or the settings were made incorrect.

3) We really must try to avoid needless squeakings about  this or that, and feed constructive input to the CMs and people  who take the time to make these events.

 If the Axis or Allied  won in the senario ,its not relevant. Period
What is relevant is that some people want  a historical arena. People  who want  on a daily basis  a more structured realistic  enviroment than the MA provides.
Through proper construction and input i believe this  could be a reality.
 Especially if HTC builds the tools for the players to use in a constructive manner.

 Petty bickerings aint gonna get it done fellas.

So that being said  lets see what tonights senario taught us.

 To keep up interest  more strategic elements
must be introduced. Goals   are needed

 If its nothing but Free Jagd we get   the end result of tonights senario.

Any body else have some observations  that  might benefit   future  events?

I hope no one takes this personally as a flame  it is not ment to be directed  to no person in particular. Rather  I hope it to be an interjection to  attain the goal quicker.

 Please pardon my grammar and spelling errors it is after all Sat night  


[This message has been edited by Baddawg (edited 08-20-2000).]

[Vyper]

Hmm, I wonder if there is any way to default a weather deck within the HA?  Whoever sets up the arena selects, let's say a 10,000 foot solid overcast.  

Some pilots would still cruise to the fight in the weather and let down trying to catch someone unawares.  This would be the one unrealistic disadvantage.

At least it's a start in the right direction but I'm not sure if it would have the desired results.

[funked]

RAM I tried to make it clear in my message that I don't blame the players, sorry if that wasn't clear.  With no goals for the arena and just a bunch of fighters, people will naturally try to maximize k:d which means high altitude boredom.

FYI I brought my squad over A3 at 15k.  We only climbed when we realized there were bandits 5k above us and that we are outnumbered about 2:1.

Also, La-5FN made its combat debut in Spring of 1943.  Yak-9U was introduced in Spring of 1944.

Baddawg, I agree 100%.

Vyper, great point about weather.


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-20-2000).]

[SpyHawk]

[Raises Hand] "Um, sir? I had fun."

I filmed the whole thing too. I never died once (bailed successfully one though) and got numerous kills & assists. I agree with RAM. I think one reason we did better was because we flew with wingmen. Several times times a Yak or La was about to blast me to hell and my wingman or other teammate dove in to save my sorry butt.

I flew from 8p to almost 11p Eastern time. Only ONCE did I start my mission by engaging with an altitude advantage.

PS: Does anybody know if it is possible to se SEA stats?

[Wingnut_0]

Originally posted by RAM:
Even a Yak9 at 30K (!) /QUOTE]

You mean a yak9 can actually stay flying that high in this game?  Considering their not so great high alt performance and all.

I just picked ur message to reply to for that quote, the rest is just in general.

I've played online flight sims for several years now trying about everything but WB (I don't make enough money for that..hehe).  For several years I played FA (don't even start) and formed a squad there.  The one thing that kept me glued was the fact that they used actual country's.  After FAII came out and it grew to be more than just dogfighting then I was definately happy.  The Axis v Allies Territorial Room is by far the most crowded in that game now.  BUT...

AH may have the better flight model of all the games out there now, but it's still a newbie.  AH needs to develope much more in the scope of things (planes, more strategic goal besides "just" taking bases) before it should consider a historical room.  A fairly complete plane set would most definately be needed in order for this to happen.  

I've heard reasons against that type of arena and the most common is, "Well in WB it was always Allie stacked".  Now I can't speak about the WB environment but there's plenty of German based (and a few JP based) squads online.  So numbers to me have always been a small point.  In FA the GE team is by far the most organized and "together" team around.  Most US and company will tell you that also    But again AH needs to have time to build up it's rep, implement a more diversified plane set and add all the perks that would draw in more and more players (lots of players so they'll lower my sub price..hehe).  Let's get HTC to work on those area's first before trying to get more arena's.

Just my $1.25  (I tip heavily)

Wingnut
GeschwaderKommadore
P.T.R. "Black 13"  

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Wingnut_0:
You mean a yak9 can actually stay flying that high in this game?  Considering their not so great high alt performance and all.
 

yes it can stay there in this game, but with much loss of performance. Still if you are at 15-20K of altitude and you see a 30K yak, the performance loss of the Yak doesnt matter at all, dont you think?...more if he has a lot of 25K friends nearby.

Funked, was a typo, La5:1943 (posted it at 6 am my hour , nearly sleeping already   )

Vyper, I agree. as I said in my previous post a hard ceiling for this kind of events is mandatory. 15K for eastern front seems OK with me.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-20-2000).]

[funked]

Sounds good RAM.  I apologize again if any Luftwaffles feel offended.  

I think the Yak-9U was supposed to represent the Yak-3 which we don't have in the planeset.  In mid-44 most of the 109s were not G-10.  And not all the G-10s were up to the amazing spec of our 450 mph beast.  USAAF and VVS pilot anectdotes of the period report that 109s could be outrun with ease.

[Ghosth]

First off about the 30k Yak. That was me, I was 18k and W of 39 trying to hookup with ammo, jihad, & co when the doorbell rang.

Put my yak on auto & went to answer it.
Turned out to be an good friend who had some troubles, needed a few min of my time. Well my yak crossed A3 at 30k about 3 times before I was done.

Once I was done I came down to 20k and found myself surrounded by red icons d3 to 8 in all directions. To make a long story short I was able eventually to run North & west, shook all but 2 of the cons, got a lucky HO on the 190, reversed and got the 109.  

After that (and reading the complaints in the buffer) I never came back higher than 17k.

Personally I had a great time in the limited time I had to spend. 4 sorties, 4 kills & 2 assists, 3 deaths.

Sorry about the 30k Yak guys but it was not intentional.